Misconduct&Repercussion

Manji2012 · 04-23-2008, 07:43 AM

From my understanding of Buddhism, it seems that in regards to misconduct, the only repercussions and consequences is the fruition of skillful or unskillful actions and habits. That, the misconduct is a result of the lack of right view and will play its role in one's ability to be liberated from the wheel of Samsara. The is also the result of misconduct not only the self but other persons as well.

Anyhoot, my main point is that in Buddhism there seems to be this lack of punishment or reward for conduct. Buddhism is mostly concerned with what is behind any conduct rather than the conduct itself and has no ultimate punishment or reward that I am familiar with from my Judeo-Christian culture.

I have this holding onto this importance of Eternal hell for those who do wrong... And the lack of this in Buddhism makes it seems as Christianity is more true...

However, misconduct seems to not matter to Christianity, Judaism, or Islam either to respect that people can be forgiven for their misconduct either by Jesus, God, or Allah. I remember my peers trying to say that their is a limit on forgiveness but, I am sure that so silly and non-scriptural.

Can anyone even begin to understand what I am trying to ask here? Perhaps, I should wait until my mind is more clear and can better ask the question.

I just have this thought that Buddhism is being inadequate in not having some form of punishment for misconduct as the culture I group up in has rubbed off on my paradigms of things. Even though there is a slight loop-hole in the system that one can escape punishment for misconduct via repentance in the Abrahamic faith scheme of things.

I ask this question because I heard a Christian argue what is a Buddhist to do when they fail to act ethically or perform right conduct because Buddhism does not have some supreme person or God to forgive them. So, what is there?

All it seems to is that past conduct has its fruitation but the present moment is more important. Even after the Body has stopped functioning the present moment is still there and thus, NIbbana is still available. Makes no difference if I cussed at my neighbor when he cut in front of me in traffic.

Snoopy · 04-23-2008, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manji2012

From my understanding of Buddhism, it seems that in regards to misconduct, the only repercussions and consequences is the fruition of skillful or unskillful actions and habits. That, the misconduct is a result of the lack of right view and will play its role in one's ability to be liberated from the wheel of Samsara. The is also the result of misconduct not only the self but other persons as well.

Anyhoot, my main point is that in Buddhism there seems to be this lack of punishment or reward for conduct. Buddhism is mostly concerned with what is behind any conduct rather than the conduct itself and has no ultimate punishment or reward that I am familiar with from my Judeo-Christian culture.

Punishment and reward follow on from judgment. What if there is no entity to be judging?

I agree about your comment regarding intention and conduct. If someone brings a knife to your throat is it automatically a “bad thing”? Perhaps the person doing this is a surgeon about to save your life.

Quote:

I have this holding onto this importance of Eternal hell for those who do wrong... And the lack of this in Buddhism makes it seems as Christianity is more true...

However, misconduct seems to not matter to Christianity, Judaism, or Islam either to respect that people can be forgiven for their misconduct either by Jesus, God, or Allah. I remember my peers trying to say that their is a limit on forgiveness but, I am sure that so silly and non-scriptural.

Can anyone even begin to understand what I am trying to ask here? Perhaps, I should wait until my mind is more clear and can better ask the question.

Does your mind have to fit in one “box” or the other before it is “clear”? Need the two be totally irreconcilable? There seem to be plenty of folk around that manage to combine elements as they see appropriate.

Quote:

I ask this question because I heard a Christian argue what is a Buddhist to do when they fail to act ethically or perform right conduct because Buddhism does not have some supreme person or God to forgive them. So, what is there?

There is the law of karma.

Quote:

All it seems to is that past conduct has its fruitation but the present moment is more important. Even after the Body has stopped functioning the present moment is still there and thus, NIbbana is still available. Makes no difference if I cussed at my neighbor when he cut in front of me in traffic.

There is only ever the present moment. It does make a difference if you cussed at your neighbour, but you can’t revisit it. But of course you can always make up for it in the now.

s.

wil · 04-23-2008, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manji2012

I have this holding onto this importance of Eternal hell for those who do wrong... And the lack of this in Buddhism makes it seems as Christianity is more true...

However, misconduct seems to not matter to Christianity, Judaism, or Islam either to respect that people can be forgiven for their misconduct either by Jesus, God, or Allah. I remember my peers trying to say that their is a limit on forgiveness but, I am sure that so silly and non-scriptural.

An eternal hell is not the belief of all of Christianity, Judaim or Islam. There is much discussion on exactly what those passages mean.

Netti-Netti · 04-23-2008, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manji2012

Anyhoot, my main point is that in Buddhism there seems to be this lack of punishment or reward for conduct. Buddhism is mostly concerned with what is behind any conduct rather than the conduct itself and has no ultimate punishment or reward that I am familiar with from my Judeo-Christian culture.

Depends on the type of Buddhism. In the Theravada-Tibetan tradition, there are unforgivable acts that result in damnation. That's because there is no way to purify oneself of such acts.

Snoopy · 04-23-2008, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Netti-Netti

Depends on the type of Buddhism. In the Theravada-Tibetan tradition, there are unforgivable acts that result in damnation. That's because there is no way to purify oneself of such acts.

Damned for eternity?

s.

Netti-Netti · 04-23-2008, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snoopy

Damned for eternity?

It's a truism to say that everything is ephemeral from the Buddhist perspective. However, when it is said that there is "no remedy" for an action, one might reasonably infere that it's final even though the concept of eternal damnation is not developed with any detail.

The Ikko-Ikki motto is "He who advances is sure of heaven, but he who retreats will suffer eternal damnation." That sounds pretty final, too. I suppose one could argue that the inferences and sloganeerings ostensibly
based on doctrine are different from the doctrine itself.

Snoopy · 04-23-2008, 04:10 PM

These acts must be pretty bad cos lesser gods don't even get to spend eternity in the higher realms. Not fair!

s.

Netti-Netti · 04-23-2008, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snoopy

These acts must be pretty bad cos lesser gods don't even get to spend eternity in the higher realms. Not fair!

According to Nichiren, the Nembutsu gets you a sure place in eternal hell. So here we have an instance of a core practice that was supposed to save you actually having the effect of damning you forever and forever. Now THAT's not fair.

Snoopy · 04-23-2008, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Netti-Netti

According to Nichiren, the Nembutsu gets you a sure place in eternal hell.

Well, he would, wouldn’t he?

Nam-Myōhō-Renge-Kyō
Nam-Myōhō-Renge-Kyō
Nam-Myōhō-Renge-Kyō
Nam-Myōhō-Renge-Kyō
Nam-Myōhō-Renge-Kyō
Nam-Myōhō-Renge-Kyō
Nam-Myōhō-Renge-Kyō
Nam-Myōhō-Renge-Kyō
Nam-Myōhō-Renge-Kyō
Nam-Myōhō-Renge-Kyō
Nam-Myōhō-Renge-Kyō
Nam-Myōhō-Renge-Kyō
Nam-Myōhō-Renge-Kyō
Nam-Myōhō-Renge-Kyō
Nam-Myōhō-Renge-Kyō
Nam-Myōhō-Renge-Kyō
Nam-Myōhō-Renge-Kyō
Nam-Myōhō-Renge-Kyō
Nam-Myōhō-Renge-Kyō
Nam-Myōhō-Renge-Kyō
Nam-Myōhō-Renge-Kyō
Nam-Myōhō-Renge-Kyō
Nam-Myōhō-Renge-Kyō
Nam-Myōhō-Renge-Kyō
Nam-Myōhō-Renge-Kyō
Nam-Myōhō-Renge-Kyō
Nam-Myōhō-Renge-Kyō
Nam-Myōhō-Renge-Kyō
Nam-Myōhō-Renge-Kyō
Nam-Myōhō-Renge-Kyō
Nam-Myōhō-Renge-Kyō
Nam-Myōhō-Renge-Kyō…

s.

Manji2012 · 04-24-2008, 02:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snoopy

There is the law of karma.s.

As in the fruition of action but no punishment for misconduct? Care to go into more detail?

Netti-Netti:

"Depends on the type of Buddhism. In the Theravada-Tibetan tradition, there are unforgivable acts that result in damnation. That's because there is no way to purify oneself of such acts."

Manji2012:

If you know them, what are the unforgivable acts?

Manji2012 · 04-24-2008, 02:58 AM

When I kill a mom's son, and dies after another person kills me for killing the a mother's son, what happens after I die.

Like, what are some possible outcomes???

Manji2012 · 04-24-2008, 03:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wil

An eternal hell is not the belief of all of Christianity, Judaim or Islam. There is much discussion on exactly what those passages mean.

Interesting, can you show me some sources where I can read people's arguments for the validation of the correct interpretation for eternal hell or not as far as the Christian religion is concerned.

seattlegal · 04-24-2008, 05:04 AM

Manji, you might want to google "Twelve Nidānas" and "Paticcasamuppāda."

seattlegal · 04-24-2008, 06:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manji2012

Interesting, can you show me some sources where I can read people's arguments for the validation of the correct interpretation for eternal hell or not as far as the Christian religion is concerned.

Manji, you might want to consider these scriptures:
John 5:16-47

John 9, especially verses 35-41

Netti-Netti · 04-24-2008, 06:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manji2012

Interesting, can you show me some sources where I can read people's arguments for the validation of the correct interpretation for eternal hell or not as far as the Christian religion is concerned.

There has been a dispute about whether eternal damnation is scripturally sound doctrine for some time. You will have no trouble finding articles on the subject when you use Google search terms like "eternal damnation does not appear in the Bible."

It seems the Old Testament makes no reference to eternal damnation to hell at all. The adequacy of the New Testament chapter and verse that is often linked to the notion of hell has been covered elsewhere. See
http://www.comparative-religion.com/...hoax-8528.html