Mosab Hassan Yousef, son of Hamas leader, becomes Christian

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by dailogue is the best

We have to know US' agenda, Quahom1? Did the US gave money to Hamas or to Mr. Abbas who helped US and Israel in their plans,taking into consideration his pockets only, and let the others starve, and die? Anyway, true Palestinians dont need money from Bush or others. They need to get their land back. It is Britain who seed Israel in Palestine, and now Europe has to solve this problem. and the US as well, for its unlimited support to Israel attrocities.

Let's focus on our topic: is "love your enemies" a good way to deal with those who wants to destroy you,your family, and your land? is this the best way to deal with war and conflicts?

OK, let's focus on the topic. Is it right to put bomb belts on 15 year olds, and have them take out people in market, just trying to buy food for the day? It happened again today, Dialogue. It wasn't Christians wearing the belts, and it wasn't adults...(but adults set the kids up to do it).

By the way. "Bush" is trying like hell to push for the Palestinian state to be established before the end of the year (that came out in the news today).

[dailogue is the best]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

OK, let's focus on the topic. Is it right to put bomb belts on 15 year olds, and have them take out people in market, just trying to buy food for the day? It happened again today, Dialogue. It wasn't Christians wearing the belts, and it wasn't adults...(but adults set the kids up to do it).

lrt's discuss the current ways of defending/attacking later.

I'm talking about Christianity, Quahom1. What does it say in case you are in a war state? does it indicate you how to deal with the situation? or does it just states: "love your enemies"?

[dailogue is the best]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

By the way. "Bush" is trying like hell to push for the Palestinian state to be established before the end of the year (that came out in the news today).

Poor he! Why is he troubling himself so much. He has been working as "hell" the past years. He has to take some rest now. We really made him so exhausted. We are really bad.

Palestine has always been an established state, and those who came to establish their state over it, with those who help them, have to leave.

Palestine is a colonized state, Quahom1.

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by dailogue is the best

Poor he! Why is he troubling himself so much. He has been working as "hell" the past years. He has to take some rest now. We really made him so exhausted. We are really bad.

Palestine has always been an established state, and those who came to establish their state over it, with those who help them, have to leave.

Palestine is a colonized state, Quahom1.

Palestine was "never" a state to begin with. In fact the term "Palestine" isn't even Arabic. It is Roman.

Be that as it may, it could become a "state", a homeland for Palestinians, if they would accept it.

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by dailogue is the best

lrt's discuss the current ways of defending/attacking later.

I'm talking about Christianity, Quahom1. What does it say in case you are in a war state? does it indicate you how to deal with the situation? or does it just states: "love your enemies"?

Minimum force required to neutralize the situation. That is the rule. Then, rebuild, and make allies. It worked in Germany, Japan, Italy, and it could work in the middle east, save but for the requirements of Islam.

edit: one of the major problems is the Islamic mandate to "lie" to non-believers, in order to save the heart of the muslim. Abbass was a perfect example of that today, when he told Ms. Rice Palestinians would recognize Israel as a soveriegn nation, then told the Palestinians in Arabic, they would never recognize Israel...lied outright. How can there be a trust of any kind?

[Quahom1]

Dialogue, you have changed the subject six times, and have not answered the heart of the matter concerning my questions, yet I have answered your questions, as presented. I opine that you are not interested in the Christian thought on this matter. I think our dialogue is concluded.

v/r

Q

[dailogue is the best]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Minimum force required to neutralize the situation. That is the rule. Then, rebuild, and make allies. It worked in Germany, Japan, Italy, and it could work in the middle east, save but for the requirements of Islam.

edit: one of the major problems is the Islamic mandate to "lie" to non-believers, in order to save the heart of the muslim. Abbass was a perfect example of that today, when he told Ms. Rice Palestinians would recognize Israel as a soveriegn nation, then told the Palestinians in Arabic, they would never recognize Israel...lied outright. How can there be a trust of any kind?

Look, Quahom1. Abbas and Rice( the American administrative) know the game so well, and they played it artfully. Dont get so impressed by what the media is saying. Palestinians no longer believe in peace with Israel. Mr. Arafat had assigned many peace treaties with Israel, which promised of Palestine as an established state. what is the result : no peace, and no Palestinian state.

Abbas doesnt reflect the Palestinians' stand from Israel. That's why, he didnt dare to declare Isreal as a soveriegn nation. Rice and Bush know this truth so deeply. They know that it is only hamas which represents the Palestinians' stand, the stand which "Bush" isnt pleased with, and he wants to chaneg it even with force, though, it is a choice of all the Palestinians.(double standard of Bush:democracy for us, and not for them).
Abbas is a man of interest. That's clear to both Palestians, who dont trust him, and to Bush and his administration, who exploit such selfish authorative man for their interest

p.s: we have turned this forum to a political one, Quahom1.

Im ready to any question, but dont forget I was the first who asked:"how Christianity deals with matters of war and conflicts? that's was my central question. If you answer it, I m ready for any question.

How can dialogue be concluded with "dailogue". Quahom1?

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by dailogue is the best

Look, Quahom1. Abbas and Rice( the American administrative) know the game so well, and they played artfully. Dont get so impressed by what the media is saying. Palestinians no longer believe in peace with Israel. Mr. Arafat had assigned many peace treaties with Israel, which promised of Palestine as an established state. what is the result : no peace, and no Palestinian state.

Abbas doesnt reflect the Palestinians' stand from Israel. That's why, he didnt dare to declare Isreal as a soveriegn nation. Rice and Bush know this truth so deeply. They know that it is only hamas which represents the Palestinians' stans. Abbas is a man of interest. That's clear to Palestians who dont trust him, and to bush and his administration who exploit such selfish authorative man for their interest

p.s: we have turned this forum to a political one, Quahom1.

Im ready to any question, but dont forget I was the first who asked:"how Christianity deals with matters of war and conflicts? that's was my central question. If you answer it, I m ready for any question.

can dialogue be concluded with "dailogue"?

I did answer your question my friend, and I was specific.

v/r

Q

edit: I'm sorry it's not the answer you wanted to hear.

[dailogue is the best]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

I did answer your question my friend, and I was specific.

v/r

Q

edit: I'm sorry it's not the answer you wanted to hear.

you didnt, Quahom1. Come on. What is the answer?

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by dailogue is the best

you didnt, Quahom1. Come on. What is the answer?

Minimum force required to neutralize the situation. That is the rule. Then, rebuild, and make allies. It worked in Germany, Japan, Italy, and it could work in the middle east, save but for the requirements of Islam.

Yes sir, I did...

[dailogue is the best]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Minimum force required to neutralize the situation. That is the rule. Then, rebuild, and make allies. It worked in Germany, Japan, Italy, and it could work in the middle east, save but for the requirements of Islam.

Yes sir, I did...

Is this the Bible teachings? I asked about what does Christianity says of dealing with war and conflicts?

[Saltmeister]

Originally Posted by dailogue is the best

I'm talking about Christianity, Quahom1. What does it say in case you are in a war state? does it indicate you how to deal with the situation?

Christianity isn't statecraft. Christianity is about the individual. It is not about foreign policy, diplomacy, nationhood or government. It does not concern itself with political systems, political structures, law systems, constitutions, who gets executive, legislative, judicial or military powers, war or rules of engagement.

That may be Islam's role and purpose but it isn't supposed to be important to the way of the Christian. Many Christians do that, but IMHO these Christians are misguided. It was never supposed to be our job to dabble in statecraft for religious purposes because a political system and its associated interactions is a secular entity, no matter how religious you try to make it. I don't consider statecraft a spiritual pursuit in the case of Christianity. Other religions may dabble in statecraft, but that is because it was part of the purpose of that religion.

Originally Posted by dailogue is the best

or does it just states: "love your enemies"?

Some people only speak of the ideology of "love your enemies" but the real "love your enemies" is the "love your enemies" that comes naturally and directly from the heart.

This is why it's so important for us to be individuals, to do things our own way and not be slaves or agents of an ideology or political system, not to conform to the ideals of an organisation, but to choose for ourselves, how to think, behave and believe, what is right to do, noble, ethical and honourable.

That is when you really see "love your enemies" happening. You were not told to love because your government, ideology, political system or spiritual leader told you to love. You love because you decided for yourself that it was important to love. Jesus did not compel anyone to love by saying "love your enemies." It was always our choice.

The command to love was a command to do something voluntarily. There is no compulsion to love. Jesus didn't give that command to an army of soldiers, soldiers who take orders, obey and execute them. He gave it to his brothers, sisters and mothers, his family. He gave it to his people as a father gives it to his children because he wants to teach them how to live. If we disobey, it is because we have not yet learnt how to love. Poeple are not to "love their enemies" because they're following orders. They are to love spontaneously. That love must come from the heart. That love has to be natural, and not an attempt to conform to an ideology, to doctrine or due to indoctrination. Love that is conformity to ideology, to the dictates of a government or establishment is not real love. Love because you can, not because it is something you must to do.

It is your choice and mine to love. Not loving doesn't necessarily make you less of a Christian. What does make you less of a Christian is not walking the path, not taking the journey seriously. The hope is that by walking the path and the journey, we discover and learn how to love.

We are not soldiers fighting a war. We are not agents of a political system or ideology, so there are no rules of engagement. We are individuals.

George W. Bush may well be a Christian, but that doesn't mean he represents Christianity. More importantly, he's a Head of State. He represents America. America is a political system. Christianity is not a political system, so when an individual like George W. Bush declares war, he does it in the name of America not Christianity. Besides, even the U.S. Constitution says that religious matters should not mix with the affairs of State. Whatever he does, he does it for secular purposes.

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by dailogue is the best

Is this the Bible teachings? I asked about what does Christianity says of dealing with war and conflicts?

That is exactly what the Bible teaches Christians, Dialogue.

v/r

Q

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by Saltmeister

Christianity isn't statecraft. Christianity is about the individual. It is not about foreign policy, diplomacy, nationhood or government. It does not concern itself with political systems, political structures, law systems, constitutions, who gets executive, legislative, judicial or military powers, war or rules of engagement.

That may be Islam's role and purpose but it isn't supposed to be important to the way of the Christian. Many Christians do that, but IMHO these Christians are misguided. It was never supposed to be our job to dabble in statecraft for religious purposes because a political system and its associated interactions is a secular entity, no matter how religious you try to make it. I don't consider statecraft a spiritual pursuit in the case of Christianity. Other religions may dabble in statecraft, but that is because it was part of the purpose of that religion.



Some people only speak of the ideology of "love your enemies" but the real "love your enemies" is the "love your enemies" that comes naturally and directly from the heart.

This is why it's so important for us to be individuals, to do things our own way and not be slaves or agents of an ideology or political system, not to conform to the ideals of an organisation, but to choose for ourselves, how to think, behave and believe, what is right to do, noble, ethical and honourable.

That is when you really see "love your enemies" happening. You were not told to love because your government, ideology, political system or spiritual leader told you to love. You love because you decided for yourself that it was important to love. Jesus did not compel anyone to love by saying "love your enemies." It was always our choice.

The command to love was a command to do something voluntarily. There is no compulsion to love. Jesus didn't give that command to an army of soldiers, soldiers who take orders, obey and execute them. He gave it to his brothers, sisters and mothers, his family. He gave it to his people as a father gives it to his children because he wants to teach them how to live. If we disobey, it is because we have not yet learnt how to love. Poeple are not to "love their enemies" because they're following orders. They are to love spontaneously. That love must come from the heart. That love has to be natural, and not an attempt to conform to an ideology, to doctrine or due to indoctrination. Love that is conformity to ideology, to the dictates of a government or establishment is not real love. Love because you can, not because it is something you must to do.

It is your choice and mine to love. Not loving doesn't necessarily make you less of a Christian. What does make you less of a Christian is not walking the path, not taking the journey seriously. The hope is that by walking the path and the journey, we discover and learn how to love.

We are not soldiers fighting a war. We are not agents of a political system or ideology, so there are no rules of engagement. We are individuals.

George W. Bush may well be a Christian, but that doesn't mean he represents Christianity. More importantly, he's a Head of State. He represents America. America is a political system. Christianity is not a political system, so when an individual like George W. Bush declares war, he does it in the name of America not Christianity. Besides, even the U.S. Constitution says that religious matters should not mix with the affairs of State. Whatever he does, he does it for secular purposes.

Nicely put.

[dailogue is the best]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

That is exactly what the Bible teaches Christians, Dialogue.

v/r

Q

Give me a verse from the Christian scriptures, Quahom1.