Music

[Samuel Linton Boot]

Originally Posted by thipps

are you sure you read the thread completely? cause the Prophet(pbuh)'s words are mentioned in this thread where authentic ahaadith prohibit it. The exceptions were mentioned as well. See post#6. Please dont ask for the proof to be repeated.

Yes I read the thread and I find no proof. I reject your interpretation and the quoted scholars interpretation of the Prophet(pbuh)'s words.

Please also remember to make a mental note of the difference between singing (where musical instruments may or may not be in use) and music (where musical instruments are definitely used).

Yes I notice there is a difference but as the human voice is a sort of musical instument and musical instruments when played by humans are a sort of human voice I don't think the distinction is relevant to the debate as to the permissibility of music.

“And of mankind is he who purchases idle talks (i.e. music, singing) to mislead (men) from the path of Allaah…” [Quran, 31:6]

You can see the words 'idle talks'.. in arabic its lahu al-hadith
Regarding this Ibn katheer said:
When Allah mentions the blessed -- who are those who are guided by the Book of Allah and benefit from hearing it, as He says:
(Allah has sent down the Best Statement, a Book, its parts resembling each other (and) oft-repeated. The skins of those who fear their Lord shiver from it. Then their skin and their heart soften to the remembrance of Allah) (Quran, 39:23). He connected that with mention of the doomed, those who turn away from the Qur'an and do not benefit from hearing the Words of Allah. Instead, they turn to listening to flutes and singing accompanied by musical instruments. As Ibn Mas`ud (May Allaah be pleased with him) commented about the Ayah:
(And of mankind is he who purchases Lahu Al-Hadith to mislead (men) from the path of Allah), he said, "This -- by Allah -- refers to singing.''
==========
For further reading on this verse, see the following:
The scholar of the ummah, Ibn ‘Abbaas (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: this means singing. Mujaahid (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: this means playing the drum (tabl). [Tafseer al-Tabari, 21/40]
Al-Hasan al-Basri (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: this aayah was revealed concerning singing and musical instruments (lit. woodwind instruments). [Tafseer Ibn Katheer, 3/451]

Similar material can be found regarding the verse 17:64 in the Quran. So, i think thats clear enough.

No it is not clear enough I reject the quoted scholars interpretation of these Qu'raanic passages, finding the passages adequate in themselves.

If the matter could be so easily proven by the Qu'raan or by the Prophet's(pbuh)'s words as you suggest would the issue be the subject of debate with Islamic scholars supporting both stances?

Allaah knows best.

[ma70]

You reject the interpretation of Al Tabari? ok, so its aparently a matter of you not accepting the facts.

There are also a bunch of hadiths that CLEARLY shows the prohibition. I have the links for a couple in Arabic, if anyone can get the translation, i would appreciate it.

http://hadith.al-islam.com/Display/D...earchLevel=QBE

http://hadith.al-islam.com/Display/D...earchLevel=QBE

[PluckyAli]

Originally Posted by ma70

You reject the interpretation of Al Tabari? ok, so its aparently a matter of you not accepting the facts.

There are also a bunch of hadiths that CLEARLY shows the prohibition. I have the links for a couple in Arabic, if anyone can get the translation, i would appreciate it.

THe conversation is going interesting.Why should someone except tabari interpretation and why are tabari interpretaions supposed to be always true????.

The person was asking about prohibtion of music in quran and not in hadiths,i think you don't need arabic,the whole quran is availabe in english.

p.ali

[thipps]

Originally Posted by PluckyAli

The person was asking about prohibtion of music in quran and not in hadiths,i think you don't need arabic,the whole quran is availabe in english.

p.ali

No, I didnt get that impression considering samuel's first and last paragraph in his last post. Also, for the umpteenth time, you cant do without the Sunnah. We had a pretty big debate with some of those people who want to reject hadith completely and they were found to have no basis of thier own. So, we are not going to have a debate about this again, especially not in this thread. Lets move on from this stance of ignoring the Sunnah. End of story.

[ma70]

Ok, no problem. If you are not satisfied with that interpretation, lets forget even mentioning it. Allah ordered us in the qur'aan to follow Muhammad (pbuh). And the hadiths I provided CLEARLY prohibit music. So, following the orders of the prophet is following the commands of God.

Also, about having the Qur'aan in English, the qur'aan isnt your average book; where you read it and interpret the meanings the way you want. It takes scholars and A LOT of knowledge about the Sirah and Sunnah to even get close to interpreting the meanings.

No one can be Muslim by following the qur'aan ONLY. You need the sunnah and hadith. Why?, ill give one quick example. Muslims MUST pray five times a day, right? now if anyone denies that fact is concidered as a disbeliever since praying is the second pillar of Islam. I bet that you wont find ANYWHERE in the Qur'aan where it tells you how you exactly pray, or how many rak'as you pray for each prayer. Yet, all that is explained in the Sunnah. So, basically to be a Muslim you need to follow the Qur'aan and Sunnah. Without either, you will indeed go astray.

Allah knows best...

[thipps]

Originally Posted by ma70

Ok, no problem. If you are not satisfied with that interpretation, lets forget even mentioning it. Allah ordered us in the qur'aan to follow Muhammad (pbuh). And the hadiths I provided CLEARLY prohibit music. So, following the orders of the prophet is following the commands of God.

salaam ma70,
the ahaadith provided by other posters were quite clear too.

No one can be Muslim by following the qur'aan ONLY. You need the sunnah and hadith. Why?, ill give one quick example. Muslims MUST pray five times a day, right? now if anyone denies that fact is concidered as a disbeliever since praying is the second pillar of Islam. I bet that you wont find ANYWHERE in the Qur'aan where it tells you how you exactly pray, or how many rak'as you pray for each prayer. Yet, all that is explained in the Sunnah. So, basically to be a Muslim you need to follow the Qur'aan and Sunnah. Without either, you will indeed go astray.

I thought i made it quite clear that we have gone past this issue. Please see the other threads on the islam board.. you will find that the issue was discussed and this quick example and others were all given. Its clear that the Sunnah cannot be ignored. And i made it quite clear that we are not going to have this discussed again and especially not on this thread. For the last time, end of story.

[ma70]

Oh am sorry, i havent been here long so i didnt know that.

sorry

[Samuel Linton Boot]

It was He who has created you and given you ears and eyes and hearts. Yet you are seldom thankful. (Qur'aan 67:23)

There is worldly literature and art which distracts and leads man away from God and and there is spiritual literature and art which attracts and leads man toward God, similiarly there is worldly music and spiritual music. This is a matter of common sense which has also been given to us by God.

A man said to Ibn ‘Abbaas (رضي الله عنه), “What do you say concerning Music? Is it permissible or is it forbidden?”
He responded, “I do not say it is forbidden except what is found in the Book of Allaah.”
The man said, “So you say it is permissible then?”
Ibn ‘Abbaas stated, “I did not say that.” Then he (Ibn ‘Abbaas) said to him, “Do you see that truth and falsehood will come on the Day of Judgement, so where will music be on that day?”

And thou wilt see the angels surrounding the Throne (Divine) on all sides, singing Glory and Praise to their Lord. The Decision between them (at Judgment) will be in (perfect) justice, and the cry (on all sides) will be, "Praise be to Allah, the Lord of the Worlds!" (Qur'aan 39:75)

Narrated Abu 'Amir or Abu Malik Al-Ash'ari:
that he heard the Prophet saying, "From among my followers there will be some people who will consider illegal sexual intercourse, the wearing of silk, the drinking of alcoholic drinks and the use of musical instruments, as lawful. And there will be some people who will stay near the side of a mountain and in the evening their shepherd will come to them with their sheep and ask them for something, but they will say to him, 'Return to us tomorrow.' Allah will destroy them during the night and will let the mountain fall on them, and He will transform the rest of them into monkeys and pigs and they will remain so till the Day of Resurrection." (Bukhari, Volume 7, Book 69, Number 494v)

"O Prophet! Why bannest thou that which Allah hath made lawful for thee, seeking to please thy wives? And Allah is Forgiving, Merciful." (Qur'aan, 66:1)

Say, "Who prohibited the nice things God has created for His creatures, and the good provisions?" Say,"Such provisions are to be enjoyed in THIS life by those who BELIEVE. Moreover, the good provisions will be exclusively theirs on the Day of resurrection." We thus explain the revelations for people who know." (Qur'aan 7:32)

Say "Do you see that which God has provided for you, you make some of it Unlawful (Haram) and some of it Lawful (Halal)?" Say "Did God allow you to do this? Or do you tell lies about God?" (Qur'aan, 10:59)

Narrated Aisha:

That once Abu Bakr came to her on the day of 'Id-ul-Fitr or 'Id ul Adha while the Prophet was with her and there were two girl singers with her, singing songs of the Ansar about the day of Buath. Abu Bakr said twice. "Musical instrument of Satan!" But the Prophet said, "Leave them Abu Bakr, for every nation has an 'Id (i.e. festival) and this day is our 'Id."(Bukhari, Volume 5, Book 58, Number 268)

I believe Allah wants us to give up and avoid worldly music yet is pleased if we take up and seek spiritual music.
Thanks for the time you have spent engaging with me, Allaho Akbar!

[ma70]

Narrated Aisha:
That once Abu Bakr came to her on the day of 'Id-ul-Fitr or 'Id ul Adha while the Prophet was with her and there were two girl singers with her, singing songs of the Ansar about the day of Buath. Abu Bakr said twice. "Musical instrument of Satan!" But the Prophet said, "Leave them Abu Bakr, for every nation has an 'Id (i.e. festival) and this day is our 'Id."(Bukhari, Volume 5, Book 58, Number 268)

Like i said before, some instruments are allowed in some occassions like weddings.

I've never heard that the prophet (pbuh), or any of the sahaba or even tabe'een have listened to "spiritual music" but they all have atleast condemned it. I think that all the proofs have been made clear. Whomever want to be in the clear, straight path, they can. And whomever want to follow innovations and what they like, not what Islam really teaches, they are deviated.

I pray that Allah keep us all on the straight path.

[thipps]

Originally Posted by Samuel

And thou wilt see the angels surrounding the Throne (Divine) on all sides, singing Glory and Praise to their Lord. The Decision between them (at Judgment) will be in (perfect) justice, and the cry (on all sides) will be, "Praise be to Allah, the Lord of the Worlds!" (Qur'aan 39:75)

I told you to make a distinction between singing and music but you didnt want to. Without the use of musical instruments, singing is just poetry and poetry are just words. So, if the words are good (nothing unislamic in it), then it is good and vice versa. Note that it is good on condition that it is not done in the manner of singers and promiscuous people, because that is imitating people of immorality and sin. simple.
Its very clear what is allowed and what isnt if you care to look into it with detail.