Muslim Religion

[mirrorinthefog]

Thank you, Friend, for you explanation.

[Friend]

Originally Posted by mirrorinthefog

Thank you, Friend, for you explanation.

Salaam
you are more welcome my friend.

[thipps]

Assalam-o-Alaikum,

Originally Posted by mirrorinthefog

Dear thipps,

Thank you for your answers thus far.

Most welcome.

As for the questions you did not answer, I wouldn't have asked them if I didn't want answers to them, whatever the answers may be to me, and I thought my final paragraph underlined that quite clearly. Please don't twist my words. If you do not wish to answer them, I will respect your wishes. You have only to say so.

Please re-read my post where i did not answer your questions, in which i explained the reason why i did not answer them. It should be clear that my intention was not to twist your words... it was simply my understanding of what you wrote. That is all. I further explained there that if you do wish answers for those questions, you could just ask them again. I specifically wrote that, just in case, i was wrong in understanding what you wrote. English not being my first language plays a part in this as well. But it should be kept in mind that it is not always possible to convey a thought or idea in the manner we wish for it to be understood by another person through pure text. Expressions and body language are a part of communication, so please simply put this down to a misunderstanding.

The restrictions you've explained here are something of a puzzle to me, I admit. I don't think personally that they are either needed or for some greater good. But then again, I am not required to obey them, so I have no reason to view them as negative. If someone wishes to obey these rules and believe they are for the best, then I can say nothing against that person. They are following what they believe is the right path.

It is not necessary that something should be done only if it achieves a good the size of a mountain. Islam is a complete system. Everything goes hand in hand with the other.
I'll try to answer the other questions, which you posted in your previous thread, next time.

PS: I hope you feel better soon.

I do. alhamdulillah.

[mirrorinthefog]

Greetings, thipps

Originally Posted by thipps

It is not necessary that something should be done only if it achieves a good the size of a mountain. Islam is a complete system. Everything goes hand in hand with the other.

I never said otherwise.

I'm glad you're feeling better.

[thipps]

Originally Posted by mirrorinthefog

Greetings, thipps
I never said otherwise.

I'm glad you're feeling better.

Assalam-o-Alaikum,
Ah, then this is misunderstanding #2 . Its what i understood from your use of the words 'greater good'. Guess you meant something else.
Ok, i checked your post, and the only question left was the following:

if I sing? Is that forbidden also?

The answer is: depends.
Depends on the Lyrics as well as if there are instruments being used or not.
In short, if the lyrics are not bad and you are just singing them without any instruments, like, for example, just walking down the street or driving your car, then by all means.
Wind and string instruments are not allowed to accompany these lyrics. basically, there is only one instrument which is allowed and that is what is called in arabic as 'duff'. It is a type of drum which has a leather sheet on one side only. thats the description i recall. i dont know what it is called in english. ill have find out.
Proof is from Quran as well as the hadith. Exegesis of 31:6 refers to this. More clear understanding is found in the authentic hadith. For this question, one can refer to, for example, Sahih Bukhari. Please see the following hadith.
The first part of the hadith [in Bold] is relevant to this discussion.
------------------------------------------
Narated By Abu 'Amir or Abu Malik Al-Ash'ari :
That he heard the Prophet saying, "From among my followers there will be some people who will consider illegal sexual intercourse, the wearing of silk, the drinking of alcoholic drinks and the use of musical instruments, as lawful. And there will be some people who will stay near the side of a mountain and in the evening their shepherd will come to them with their sheep and ask them for something, but they will say to him, 'Return to us tomorrow.' Allah will destroy them during the night and will let the mountain fall on them, and He will transform the rest of them into monkeys and pigs and they will remain so till the Day of Resurrection."
[Vol 7, Book 69 (Drinks), Hadith # 494B]

Hope this answers your question.

[mirrorinthefog]

Thank you, thipps, for elaborating.

In other words there can be no musical accompaniment when someone is singing besides drums, and the lyrics have to be agreeable? Is it just that particular drum that you mentioned that's allowed or can other drums be used?

In Turkey I know certain religious mystic sects (such as the Mevlevis) use musical instruments while singing hymns. Are they violating hadith? Or does this regulation have some exceptions (since the lyrics being used are of a religious nature, for example?)
So...wearing silk is also forbidden? I had no idea. I've seen women wearing silk scarves and I didn't think there was anything wrong with that. Oh well...

Thanks again.

Mirrorinthefog

[thipps]

Assalam-o-Alaikum,

Originally Posted by mirrorinthefog

Thank you, thipps, for elaborating.

Most welcome.

In other words there can be no musical accompaniment when someone is singing besides drums, and the lyrics have to be agreeable? Is it just that particular drum that you mentioned that's allowed or can other drums be used?

I specifically described the 'drum' so that it was not confused with the contemporary drum which has sheets on both sides. as far as i know,the duff is the only type of drum which is allowed and to my understanding, it can be used only on special occasions like, for example, the Eid festivals or a wedding [Dont know the complete list of occasions]. So, again, there can be no musical accompaniment when someone is singing and the lyrics have to be agreeable. Yes to that. The situation with the usage of the drum i have explained above.

In Turkey I know certain religious mystic sects (such as the Mevlevis) use musical instruments while singing hymns. Are they violating hadith? Or does this regulation have some exceptions (since the lyrics being used are of a religious nature, for example?)

I assume since you have asked, the instrument is besides the duff, so to my understanding, they are violating Islamic teachings. I dont recall there being any exceptions and plz recall the hadith i quoted. It prophecises that the use of musical instruments will be considered lawful. If anything, i see the fullfilment of this prophecy in what you have told me.

So...wearing silk is also forbidden? I had no idea. I've seen women wearing silk scarves and I didn't think there was anything wrong with that. Oh well...

Ok, ill have to elaborate regarding silk. The men are not allowed to wear silk. I dont recall there being any prohibition on women in this regard. Women can very well wear silk. Ill recheck and if i find anything different, ill post it. I seem to remember some hadith i had read in this regard, that since men will refrain from wearing silk in this world, God will give them clothes of silk to wear in heaven as a reward for obeying this command of His.
Since you have mentioned silk, gold is often mentioned in this connection as well. Again, in Islam, men are not allowed to wear anything made of gold. It is forbidden for men but the women can wear all the gold they want. Hope the men dont start to say that Islam oppresses men now.
Vajradhara, hope you are reading this last part.
Hope this answers your questions.

[thipps]

Assalam-o-Alaikum, mirrorinthefog,
One of the reasons i like it when people ask questions about Islam is that it not only educates others, it gives me an opportunity to educate myself as well. Regarding beating the duff, following are some more details on its restriction of usage.
Firstly, the duff is also a musical instrument and is the only exception regarding usage and that too for certain occasions.
Abd-Allaah ibn Abbaas (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: The duff is haraam[forbidden], stringed instruments are haraam, drums are haraam and flutes are haraam. [Narrated by al-Bayhaqi, 10/222]

But there are some ahaadeeth which indicate that it is permissible to beat the duff in some circumstances, which are:
Eid festival, weddings, and when one who has been away returns.

Evidence is present in hadith but i will not relate it here just to keep the length of the post short [If you ask me to, i will].
Apart from the 3 occasions cited above, the principle remains that it is haraam. Some scholars made the matter broader and said that it is permissible to beat the duff when a child is born and when he is circumcised; others take the matter further and say that it is permissible on all occasions that are a cause for expressing joy, such as the recovery of a sick person and the like.
But it is better to limit ourselves to what was narrated in the text.
Secondly, the correct view is that it is not permissible to beat the duff except for women. Ibn Hajar, Ibn Taymiyah and Shaykh ‘Abd al-‘Azeez ibn Baaz (May Allah have mercy on them) all said that. If you want, I can relate thier individual proofs and views but in the interest of keeping the post short, i have not done so.
Hope this clears things up a bit more.

[mirrorinthefog]

Thank you again thipps.
It seems to me that these restrictions seem to favor Arabian culture quite a bit, am I wrong? (Someone who lives in Japan, for example, may not be able to obtain a duff to play or have the means to make one herself, whereas the instrument might be commonplace in certain parts of the Arabian Penninsula).
So then I take it dancing would also be restricted?
No need to quote the hadith, I don't want to trouble you. I'll take your word that they exist

[thipps]

Originally Posted by mirrorinthefog

Thank you again thipps.
It seems to me that these restrictions seem to favor Arabian culture quite a bit, am I wrong? (Someone who lives in Japan, for example, may not be able to obtain a duff to play or have the means to make one herself, whereas the instrument might be commonplace in certain parts of the Arabian Penninsula).
So then I take it dancing would also be restricted?
No need to quote the hadith, I don't want to trouble you. I'll take your word that they exist

Assalam-o-Alaikum,
i am not an expert on culture, so i wont comment on that. still, i am asian, not an arab and in my own country, it is made and easily available. Japan being neither an arab nor a muslim country might create a problem for a muslim there who would want it. Firstly, i am not aware of thier import activities, so i cant say if they already have such a drum or not as all musical instruments are of interest to lovers of music; be they arabian or not. Furthermore, its the 21st century, importing it shouldnt be a great difficulty. it is not a large object, and can be possibly brought by anyone coming from outside the country attending the wedding ceremony. And, in general, if one has the means to afford a wedding, surely one has the means to make a duff. You need only one, not 50 or 100. Furthermore, it is not a pre-requisite for marriage to take place & is something optional. Still, considering its simple construction [see below], it shouldnt be hard to make even if it came to that. I found a slightly more detailed description of the duff, when compared to a regular drum. This is what the text said.
The only musical instrument that is permissible is the daff, and not others such as the tabl. The difference between them is that the tabl is covered on both sides whereas the daff is open on one side and covered on the other.
Regarding dancing, in general, one scholar had this to say:
Dancing is makrooh[discouraged, not recommended] in principle, but if it is done in the western manner or in imitation of the non-muslim women, then it becomes haraam[forbidden], because the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Whoever imitates a people is one of them.” If it is done by men that is even worse, because that is men imitating women.
Regarding dancing of women[Its mostly done by females, thus more relevant]:
It is not permissible to do so in front of men and/or women, because of the fitnah[means temptation in this context] that may be caused by the movements of the body. It is well known that women may feel desire for one another, and even if that is not the case, there is no guarantee that one of them will not go back to her menfolk and describe to them what she has seen of the beauty of the dancer and her movement, so this may affect the men and may cause a great deal of mischief. The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) forbade such things.
Abd-Allaah ibn Mas’ood (may Allaah be pleased with him) narrated:
The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “No woman should look at another woman then describe her to her husband so that it is as if he can see her.” [Narrated in Sahih Bukhaari]
I dont think i need to get into the situation where a mixed gathering of men and women are dancing. It is obvious that it is also not allowed in Islam. The example of night clubs etc. and such things with their results and the fitnah that follows is even worse than what is described above.
Hope this answers your question.

[mirrorinthefog]

Well, I don't agree with the justifications, but I'll take your word for it that these are the rules in Islam.
Thank you for elaborating.

[thipps]

Originally Posted by mirrorinthefog

Well, I don't agree with the justifications, but I'll take your word for it that these are the rules in Islam.

okies.

Thank you for elaborating.

My pleasure.