My Christianity questions.

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by wil

Penguin, often thought in responses to to a thread spawn new thought, which spawns new responses...completely off topic of the original thread...it happens, and often creates an awesome discussion and occasionally derails the the thread...nature of the beast I think.

I think Paul was an amazing marketer...if he were around today he'd give Bill Gates a run for his money... But today we have missionairies following in his footsteps giving away bibles everywhere...and the Gideons insuring there is a bible in every hotel room drawer...Most Christians I know have multiple bibles, gifts from childhood graduations, various interpretations picked up for study, family bibles handed down.. Hard for me to imagine having 5-10 copies of any other book. I don't think it is hard to understand how it became the largest selling book of all time. With the growing number of Muslims in the world and general interest in Islam I think the Koran will be coming on strong...

I doubt it. For one thing, in order to truly understand the Qu'ran one must be able to read Arabic (that comes right from the Muslims that have posted here at CR). In any other language, the Qu'ran does not carry the significance of the true meaning as it allegedly does in the original Arabic. I happen to have one (surprised?), and the reading of is...challenging, especially if one does not well know the History of Islam, or the characters involved.

The Bible, in comparrison is relatively simple to read, in any language. Though the composed bibliography is not exactly chronologically ordered, each "book" holds its own logical sequence of causes, effects and lessons learned.

Unlike the Qu'ran (and many other religious scriptures), a new Christian or one who is curious are encouraged to start reading it by reading...

The Gospel of John. Why? John's message is plain, clear and concise within the first few paragraphs. What is the Bible about...it is about Jesus the Savior, the Messiah of Mankind. From there people's curiosity gets them to continue "exploring" what else the Bible has to say.

Ironic that most people here at CR have a better understanding of the Bible, than other have of the Qu'ran.

The Christian story is simple. Jesus is a personal God. He is your God and my God, the God of ages. Trust in Jesus, and all will work out for the best. That is it!

That is why the Bible is a best seller. People want to know that God cares for each and every individual personally.

now back to our regular scheduled program...

v/r

Q

[Thomas]

An aside for the Christian esotericists:

Each Revelation is carried by a sacred language, but as a mode of revelation Christianity is 'the word made flesh' - with everything such a statement implies - and as such comprises 'an esoterism in plain sight' and so transcends language which is itself exoteric. Thus the Sacramental efficacy of the reading of Scripture is not dependent upon in which language it is read.

To the Fathers the Sacred Scriptures were a form of the Body of Christ, and reading them is a Dialogue with the Saviour.

Those traditions which are tied to a sacred language produce certain psychodynamic effects when read or chanted in that language, but these effects are not effected in other languages (the sonorous structure differs). Hence the Islamic belief that the Qran is only 'effective' in Arabic, or the Vedas in Sanskrit.

Thomas

[wil]

Originally Posted by Thomas

Those traditions which are tied to a sacred language produce certain psychodynamic effects when read or chanted in that language, but these effects are not effected in other languages (the sonorous structure differs). Hence the Islamic belief that the Qran is only 'effective' in Arabic, or the Vedas in Sanskrit.

When I hear the Lord's Prayer in Aramaic, or a Cantar sing the Psalms..I don't understand the words...but do experience them in a wonderful way...great for going into meditation...As with the Koran and Arabic...there would be great value in knowing the language that the books were written in and reading them from that space...

[Thomas]

Hi Wil -

Agreed - I prefer the Latin Mass over the vernacular, but I also acknowledge that part of its magic is precisely that I didn't understand it, therefore don't engage in mental dialogue - its the discursive function of the brain that we bypass in meditation - at that level the sung Latin mass functions in the same way as rites in any other tradition.

Having said that, whilst I do argue among Catholics that the English vernacular language of the Liturgy is dreadful - its English by committee and compared to the language of the great poets or prose writers it is drab and dreary - a crafted liturgy in English can elevate the soul.

For me the most moving moment of any mass (and God forbid I should be comparing miracle to miracle) is the Good Friday reading of the Crucifixion - something I know well, but something that transmits differently in the context of the Church and a Christian collectivity - but something I would lose if I did not know what the words meant.

As a meditative/prayer device, I use the simple phrase 'Kyrie eleison' - it's one of the oldest parts of the liturgy, so my prayer is echoed by the generations that have gone before; it reverberates through time and the history of my tradition; it is the only Greek in the Latin Mass, and a simplification of the 'Jesus Prayer' so it unites East and West in a time before schism, which is where I place myself; it's short and therefore easy to utilise the rhythm of the breath.

Best of all I can sign a multitude of variations whilst riding my bike, safe in the knowledge that my 'voice' cannot be heard beyond a full-face helmet and a 600cc engine...

Thomas

[juantoo3]

Kindest Regards, Thomas!

Thank you for that!

Each Revelation is carried by a sacred language, but as a mode of revelation Christianity is 'the word made flesh' - with everything such a statement implies - and as such comprises 'an esoterism in plain sight' and so transcends language which is itself exoteric. Thus the Sacramental efficacy of the reading of Scripture is not dependent upon in which language it is read.

To the Fathers the Sacred Scriptures were a form of the Body of Christ, and reading them is a Dialogue with the Saviour.

Yes, of course!

The message supercedes the messenger!