Names of people I do not want my kids to emulate...

wil · 08-15-2007, 07:02 PM

Got any negative role models to add to the list?

George Bush - Preemptive War
Bill Clinton - I did not have sex with that woman

Neither in my eyes in the long run were very presidential...

Michael Vick
Paris Hilton

I figured I'd just start the list....

dauer · 08-15-2007, 07:21 PM

Helter Skelter.

Faithfulservant · 08-15-2007, 08:40 PM

marilyn manson
jeffrey dahmer
madonna
tommy lee
lindsey lohan
eminem
rosie o'donnell

AndrewX · 08-16-2007, 04:30 AM

wow ... brittney spears?

Ozzy Osbourne?
Sharon Os ... wait - ALL the Osbournes (!)

gangsta rappers (Boyz in the Hood are all that come to mind)

the CEOs of about EVERY major American mega-conglomerate & big corporation

98% of US Senators and Congressmen
a good percentage of other countries' elected governmental representatives
most of other countries' NON-elected representatives (

)

Barney

Postmaster · 08-16-2007, 10:09 AM

Who are we to judge that these people are bad roll models?

Do parents have unrealistic expectations of there children?

You don't have to be foul mouthed, in a powerful position, or outrageous to cause hate, it comes in a whole variety of forms. There's alot hidden in conservatism, at least some people in the list express themselves truthfully. I won’t add to this list. I think its unnecessary worry.

17th Angel · 08-16-2007, 10:22 AM

What's wrong with Dahmer or Manson?

Hey If my son wished to be like Manson... I would be thrilled to freaking bits... Manson is a very intelligent man.

Oh scary he dresses differently... Whoopy freaking do... Oh he says naughty words in songs... That's how life is this day and age you seriously don't think your children have ever sworn? lol.... How naive...

Although to the parent of a child, that child is a genisus... a gifted angel lol... It takes others to truly identify the kid.

Postmaster · 08-16-2007, 10:28 AM

I think some of the negative views towards these people in the arts and politics are born out of the idea that vast fortunes goes hand in hand with immorality. Maybe it stems from envy? If poor people act in the same way were always fast to blame it on there poverty and don't hold them as accountable for there actions, maybe because they are economically below us?

I think parents are the Childs first line of roll model so I don't care how anyone else lives there life and demonising people isn't a good trait to pass on.

17th Angel · 08-16-2007, 10:33 AM

I'd agree that envy and jealousy can be a factor. See green and that's it...

Postmaster · 08-16-2007, 10:49 AM

for sure.. and another thing is it's the people that are buying there stuff in the first place... were who are feeding them.

17th Angel · 08-16-2007, 10:51 AM

Speaking of feeding them... They attempting to boycott shows/performances/whatever... Making protests, causing waves... Calling them this and that, they are bad because of this and that... That is one of the many forms of feeding them also. Then you look puzzled and cannot understand where there popularity and fame comes from.

Penguin · 08-16-2007, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Got any negative role models to add to the list?

Adolf Hitler
Josef Stalin
George Bush

AndrewX · 08-16-2007, 08:45 PM

I don't see this thread about scapegoating at all. We all know that we all have a hand in it ... that we share the blame, and that most importantly, it is our Responsibility to FIX what's wrong.

In some cases, it's like the bumper sticker says: If the people will lead, the leaders will follow.

Let's not pretend that young children aren't impressionable, and that they aren't paying attention to the world around them. I knew who the rock band `KISS' was when I was 5 yrs old, or younger. I didn't want to be just like them, and I certainly never had my face painted in black 'n white makeup. But I was glamourizing them from a time when I really didn't even understand what they were all about, or what the themes of their very-popular music were.

If you haven't been paying attention, let me bring you up to speed. KISS isn't exactly Simon & Garfunkel. KISS isn't Ravi Shankar, and they don't even have an anti-war, protest message like early Black Sabbath does. Sure, I sometimes like to hear `Black Diamond,' or `100,000 Years,' or `Cold Gin.' But the kind of lifestyle that KISS sings about ... is not something that I'd want my kids rushing off to emulate. Look up some lyrics, if you're curious.

Alice Cooper even once stated that he took the lyrics for some of his songs straight from discarnate entities ... shells of deceased human beings, or "evil spirits." And the corrupt politicians and world leaders that people have mentioned - it's not that these men & women are responsible, single-handedly, for all the even in our world. Horse-feathers!!!

But, dear Postmaster and 17th, they ARE responsible for fulfilling the roles of the offices for which they have been elected. And they SHOULD be trying to do so with at least half a shred of conscience! As representatives, they are supposed to REPRESENT! But when it comes down to it, we see that they are overwhelmingly in this game as a game, that they really only care about power-mongering, and selling their souls to the highest bidder.

Does the word SCANDAL mean nothing to you? I'm not talking about, oh, I had a blow job under desk kind of scandal. BIG DEAL. Let the fundamentalists go running and screaming about that!

Meanwhile, whore-hey dumbiya bush is sitting in the White House for a 2nd term, having been elected for NEITHER. The Supreme Court, supposedly the greatest Court of our land, placed him there ILLEGALLY. We all know that Dumbiya is still AWOL from National Guard duty, that he was arrested for sniffing cocaine, that he has at least one DWI (Driving While Intoxicated), and that he ran every oil business he ever owned into the ground.

Which part of this are my kids supposed to ADMIRE and EMULATE, when I say, "See children, this is the PRESIDENT of our great country." You actually want me to say to ANY child, "What a wonderful man our president is. Maybe you can be like HIM when you grow up!" ???

Don't dodge the issue. Don't pretend that kids don't have role models.

Sure, the Fantastic Four movies were cheesey. Okay, yeah, stuff like the Matrix, after the first one, may have gone downhill. The X-Men movies might have been a bit unrealistic. But you know, at least when kids and young adults watch movies like this, they are exposed to positive role models, and a modern take on the Good.

It may not be as simple and clear-cut as the knight in shining armor, slaying dragons ... although sometimes it still is. And the technology, or the special effects, do almost seem to drown out the underlying message ... but Neo of The Matrix was, nevertheless, someone with qualities, with actions, with an (evolving) philosophy, etc. - which we could imagine emulating.

I could name 5, maybe 10 American politicians off the top of my head, each of whom is a good role model - FOR people who might want to enter politics, at least ... if not in general. It's not that every politician is a crooked politician, just as not every televangelist is a crooked televangelist. Just most of them.

Are cops bad people? Are they all on a power-trip, with a gun and a badge?

Horse feathers!!! I know several who disprove such a rule. Most likely we all do. And so, I don't like stereotypes. I'm just responding to the thread ... and trying to point out that if you go around defending the actions, speech and role model of every idiot out there ... then sure enough, sooner or later, all we'll have - is a world full of IDIOTS!

~Andrew

wil · 08-16-2007, 09:20 PM

It's not I don't know there is a spark of light in each and everyone of these beings...it is just that they are not letting their light shine!

I'd like my kids to emulate folks that let their light shine...that glow...people so hot everyone from miles around comes just to see them burn!

Oh I know we are all works in progress. And frankly there are lessons to be learned from many of the wonderful negative role models.

I just spent some time with one of them...a friend even, yes he's racist, sexist, angry, an alcoholic and it is the rest of the world's fault for all his ills....but oh the conversations we have as we drive away from his house...three hours in the car goes by like nothing as we discuss that neither I nor they want to turn out like that....but we appreciate him for who he is.

And true you are correct who am I to judge?? Well I am no one to judge anyone personally...but when it comes to raising my children I'll point out the oaks that are stately, the willows that bend in the wind, the snakes in the grass, the vultures eating carrion, the maggots eating the dead flesh....and I'll point out the pro's and cons, the benefits and issues with each...obviously my opinions....but I'll observe each by their actions and results.

Last night at Dances of Universal Peace we danced in honor of Shiva the destroyer....but all the positive aspects of that entity....more good discussion on the way home...

another couple for the list....

Don Imus
Howard Stern
Dick Cheney
YouTube - Cheney '94: Invading Baghdad Would Create Quagmire C-SPAN

greymare · 08-17-2007, 07:01 AM

me, when I was younger. hopefully they havent listened to my stories of the "good old days,(not)"

love the grey

AndrewX · 08-17-2007, 07:27 AM

Thought I'd mention that Morgan Freeman (especially as The Easy Reader - yeeeeaaa, Electric Company!!!) ... and Will Smith, are two of the greatest positive role models I've got, even though it took me a few years to realize it. Others include local volunteers in my community, and in the neighboring city, while at least as many negative examples also probably live closeby.

All of this, for me, begs the question: what qualities do each of us most admire in our role models (or those whom we believe are good examples for our kids), and what exactly constitutes poor role models?

I guess the answers might seem obvious, but the discussion would mean a lot to me. I don't want to hijack your thread, Wil. Maybe I could take the question to a new thread?

~Andrew