Need Serious Help With This One :)

[Sacredstar]

John 3:30-36 (New International Version)
New International Version (NIV)

Joh 3:30-36

30 He must become greater; I must become less.

31 “The one who comes from above is above all; the one who is from the earth belongs to the earth, and speaks as one from the earth. The one who comes from heaven is above all.

32 He testifies to what he has seen and heard, but no one accepts his testimony.

33 The man who has accepted it has certified that God is truthful.

34 For the one whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for God gives the Spirit without limit.

35 The Father loves the Son and has placed everything in his hands.

36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him.”

As Paul said Christ is within us all, when one rejects the Christ within we also reject our own light, and when we resist the light the darkness can increase which then creates its own wrath because of the universal laws that GOD put in place.

For instance Depression can be explained as a lack of light and the light of love.

being love

Kim xx

[didymus]

Bandit, Genesis 1:27, So God created man in his own image; in the image of God he created him; male and female He created them.

[Bandit]

he created him

there is no male or female in spirit. I do not see more than one God here anywhere in genises.

male and female He created them

again I see HE created THEM. Man can also refer to woman in the flesh or both at the same time but not in the spirit. God is ONE spirit and has no gender.

Let us

Me Myself an I.



I dont know how predestination and free will turned into the creation of man and God being more than one God. Nope. I am not falling for the Sophia Holy Ghost and God being different persons. It is always the same argument that creeps into every Christian thread.

1 Now these are the commandments, the statutes, and the judgments, which the LORD your God commanded to teach you, that ye might do them in the land whither ye go to possess it:
2 That thou mightest fear the LORD thy God, to keep all his statutes and his commandments, which I command thee, thou, and thy son, and thy son's son, all the days of thy life; and that thy days may be prolonged.
3 Hear therefore, O Israel, and observe to do it; that it may be well with thee, and that ye may increase mightily, as the LORD God of thy fathers hath promised thee, in the land that floweth with milk and honey.

4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:
5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

[Basstian]

Well it really depends whether you embrace the GOD of wrath in the OT or the GOD of Love in the NT.

Where does it Say to Switch Gods when you Get to the NT

Ok nevermind that Any Body reading this Thread I would still Like to address the original verses mentioned not be drug off into La La Love land again.

*Grumbles*

[didymus]

Bandit, you are in extreme denial. The words appear before your very eyes but yet you refuse to acknowledge what it says. How do you interpret us as me myself and I?

Are you saying Genesis was wrong? Admit that there is a discrepancy here.


It says that God gave us dominion over the earth and it also says in Genesis 1:29 i have given you every green herb that yields seed which is on the face of the earth, and every tree whose fruit yields seed, to you it shall be for food.

now let's stroll over to Genesis 2:16 and the Lord God commanded the man saying,"of every tree of the garden you may freely eat, but of the tree of knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you will surely die."

Didn't God just say in chapter 1 we had dominion and could eat from any tree whose fruit yields seed?

What is your interpretation here?

[Bandit]

Bandit, you are in extreme denial. The words appear before your very eyes but yet you refuse to acknowledge what it says. How do you interpret us as me myself and I?

i do not see any conversation there as if God is speaking to another god and waiting for some kind of reply from someone. The only thing I am denying is that there is more than one God. I see that as a statement spoken by the one God.

"Let us make soup" If I am the only one in the kitchen, then it is me, myself and I.
This is the spoken WORD. When God spoke-IT HAPPENED!

There is no male or female in spirit. The Lord our God is ONE.

What is your interpretation here?

We have to follow the order of events. The bible is not written in chronological order of events all the the time like a novel. It flips around in time sometimes.

Adam could eat of every tree EXCEPT the tree of good and evil. It was a commandment NOT to eat off that one tree.
I would have to say the commandment came after God gave Adam dominion, not before.
It is not a contradiction if you think. You have to keep the events in order and understand that or everything gets all mixed up.

But Hey- I guess we can mix it up any way we want to and come up with just about anything. THAT is when it appears there is conflict.

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by Bandit

where does the bible say this?

In Genesis, God implies a duality to God's nature, just prior to making man. No matter how one looks at it, the book of Genesis alludes to duality, and confirms it (apparently) in the creation of Man in God's image, male and female. Not to mean that God is male and female, but that there is duality in God's nature, which is manifest in the creation of Mankind as male and female (duality).

I spoke on this yesterday in another thread.

http://www.comparative-religion.com/...3750#post23750

It is just a thought, but it arose from various biblical passages.

v/r

Q

[Bandit]

I can agree with duality. Maybe in essence and in nature like you say Quahom but more or less in thought, feelings and action. I can see a dual nature as in love and wrath or peace and anger, because even man has this ability. We have to remember God had all the thoughts there before he ever made it all happen. The Word AND GOD SAID is not necessarily a verbal spoken word, yet it is still the spoken WORD.

I dont think God was literally speaking to anyone in Genises. If others want to believe God was speaking to other gods, that is up to them.
At the most He may have been refering to the angels. But I dont think angels have the power to create people and things in earth and heaven.
I actually see God as the male and the people as his female (but not literal). This is why Israel is refered to as a woman to God and the church is refered to as a woman (bride) to Jesus. This is not literal gender. However God is strong and man is weak. God made man with the ability to procreate himself in the flesh. God does not have this ability. He can only make and create, yet begets the spirit of man through a spiritual adoption.

I believe God is ONE spirit (soul). I see the seven spirits of God as (ATTRIBUTES) that make Him plural. However when you go Father, son, holy ghost and you start making up things like one of these entities is a female, then we have failed to compare that which is spirit to spirit (no gender) and that which is flesh which does have gender...and we are right back into the same old pagan myths of Rome and Egypt.

Then we add the seven spirits to the trinity theory and now we are looking at 10 spirits with gods and goddesses floating around in our heads.

Sorry Christians, I love you all very much, but I have to go with the Muslims and the Jews when it comes to God being ONE. The scripture is very clear to me on this.
One entity but can be manifested in many ways and have many titles and probably this duality if we understand it properly.

We have to focus on the man Jesus and search the scriptures with a fine tooth comb and what has been said through the entire bible about Jesus if we truly want to better understand what God is about and his purpose with us...and even then we have only begun to scratch the surface of His infinite wisdom.

Isa 11:2-4
2 And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;
3 And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears:

Hey Basstian sorry about that. Need Serious Help With This One
I dont know how it got off into all this. I was really wanting to study predestination and free will. LOL

Maybe we can all start a different thread and call it predestination and free will...and leave this one for stuff that needs serious help with. (tease)

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by Bandit

...Hey Basstian sorry about that. Need Serious Help With This One
I dont know how it got off into all this. I was really wanting to study predestination and free will. LOL

Maybe we can all start a different thread and call it predestination and free will...and leave this one for stuff that needs serious help with. (tease)

I'm not the brightest bulb on the tree, but I recognize this as a cut off, which is fine with me. However, I was specifically answering a question you posed in this particular thread...

Quote:
God is male and female in likeness
"where does the bible say this?" Bandit Quote.

I understand duality. It is in me. I got it from God. The masculine part of me is dominant (as it should be for my particular makeup), but the feminine part of me is also there (in my breaking heart over children and animals, and people in sad state of affairs, I suppose). The feminine side in me is also strong in "killing" the enemy who would attack my home...it just happens to be backed up by the masculine side which is capable of carrying out that edict...

Do you see, how the two work now? The Duality of God, the nature of male and female in the Divine plan...Man and wife, two parts describing the whole of God, in a way. But God has both parts within...else where would we have come up with the concept, let alone the physical designs...?

v/r

Q

[Bandit]

yah. in nature. you can kill someone or rescue someone. That same ability (duality) would also have to apply to God as it does with man and it could not just stop with the female/male duality in nature.

but there is no literal male/female gender in the spirit because spirits cant have S-X. that is why he created man and woman with that function.

my bulb is burning out. i better turn in.
goodnight all.

[Basstian]

I was really going to try to stay out of this one
I have no problem with saying God knows and understands and has feminine traits. It makes Him an all knowing God.

But I see great danger of deception in adding to or taking away from the 66 books we call scripture.

I would have to see God refered to as or the spirit refered to as Mother in at least two very clear verses before I would accept even beginning to consider the idea.

Dont go telling me rome screwed up the Bible its quoted to much in this thread for that. If you really believed it is that bad you wouldnt use it.

Jesus prayed Our Father which art in heaven.

Why isnt that good enough?

[Bandit]

Originally Posted by Basstian

I was really going to try to stay out of this one
I have no problem with saying God knows and understands and has feminine traits. It makes Him an all knowing God.

But I see great danger of deception in adding to or taking away from the 66 books we call scripture.

I would have to see God refered to as or the spirit refered to as Mother in at least two very clear verses before I would accept even beginning to consider the idea.

Dont go telling me rome screwed up the Bible its quoted to much in this thread for that. If you really believed it is that bad you wouldnt use it.

Jesus prayed Our Father which art in heaven.

Why isnt that good enough?

I cant sleep. That is kind of what i am saying, but i understand the duality of ONE God in nature but not a literal male/female or that He is comes in many different multiple spirits. We also get into a problem when you start seeing worship the EARTH MOTHER and Sophia the Holy Ghost and I as far as I can see even the old saying MARY THE MOTHER OF GOD.
This is the direction I wont go because these things are mans ideas and all stem from pagan myths. Sure, they are in other writings, but not in the 66 books. This is where some keep slipping back into that thought.


Rome did not mess with the bible. It turned out exactly the way God wanted it to.

I would have to see God refered to as or the spirit refered to as Mother in at least two very clear verses before I would accept even beginning to consider the idea.

Our Father which art in heaven. In Jesus name Amen. Is good enough for me.

[didymus]

I think what we need to keep in mind here is that the creation theory is a myth and should be read as so. Everybody knows that the garden of eden and such related stories have strong similarities to ancient sumer and mesopatamia.
Obviosly noone was there to record it. It shows to me man';s early conception of God and creation. It is fascinating.

Bandit. Your theory of me myself and I is ........well let me just say that is a unique interpretation. It clearly says us. I believe that in those days they believed in more than one God and it s apparent in the writing.

I believe that God's spirit is both male and female and I have no problem with it. If God created all and is all then that doesn't exclude anything.

Here is another verse we can discuss

Genesis 3: 22 Then the Lord God said, "behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever"

It seems that God here feared that man would become like him or should I say them. So he banished him from the garden of eden. He also feared that man would eat of the tree of life and live forever.

[Bandit]

I am always amazed at how ONE always means ONE in number, but when it comes to God, some insist on making him plural as if there is more than ONE.
1=1
ONE=ONE
One God=One God

You might consider debating this with the Jews and Muslims because I am quickly losing interest.

Genesis 3: 22 Then the Lord God said, "behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever"

It seems that God here feared that man would become like him or should I say them. So he banished him from the garden of eden. He also feared that man would eat of the tree of life and live forever.

1)In the beginning...If you believe God was literally speaking to other gods, then why dont these other gods ever speak back to God?
2)Why is there no record of conversation between God and gods?.?.?
3)Why does not God refer to these other gods that you suppose, and call them YOU and THEY and distinguish them?
4)Why cannot US WE OUR, OURSELF refer to the attributes and personality(s) of one being and one mind?


I will never be convinced there is more than one God but if you want to believe God was speaking to another god that is up to you. This is why i wont go any farther than the possiblity of God speaking to angels (which He created) in these verses.
I STILL do not see any conversation there or reply from any other person or god.
You are looking at it as if God was literally having a conversation with someone. I dont see it that way.
I am not getting into The tree of life right now.

It clearly says us. I believe that in those days they believed in more than one God and it s apparent in the writing.

The righteous seed and Jewish faith has never believed there is more than one God or that God is more than one person.

I think what we need to keep in mind here is that the creation theory is a myth and should be read as so. Everybody knows that the garden of eden and such related stories have strong similarities to ancient sumer and mesopatamia.

YOU keep that in YOUR mind.
If you are looking for a creation debate you need to find someone else.

I do not believe Gen. 1 is a myth, but if others want to, that is there choice. I find the story of creation mentioned in detail throughout the other books of the bible. The Genises story is backed by the rest of the bible many many times. The days and acts of creation, Adam and Eve, Seth, Enoch, Cain and Able... is there all the way through. You dont have to believe like I do. Whatever happened on earth before Adam I am not real concerned with. I do not believe we are offspring from tadpoles and monkeys.

I believe that God's spirit is both male and female and I have no problem with it. If God created all and is all then that doesn't exclude anything.

The scripture does not say this. Masculine and femine maybe, but not male and female. There is a difference and there is no gender in spirit.

"us":


587 'anachnuw an-akh'-noo apparently from 595; we:--ourselves, us, we. 3027 yad yawd a primitive word; a hand (the open one (indicating power, means, direction, etc.), in distinction from 3709, the closed one); used (as noun, adverb, etc.) in a great variety of applications, both literally and figuratively, both proximate and remote (as follows):--(+ be) able, X about, + armholes, at, axletree, because of, beside, border, X bounty, + broad, (broken-)handed, X by, charge, coast, + consecrate, + creditor, custody, debt, dominion, X enough, + fellowship, force, X from, hand(-staves, -y work), X he, himself, X in, labour, + large, ledge, (left-)handed, means, X mine, ministry, near, X of, X order, ordinance, X our, parts, pain, power, X presumptuously, service, side, sore, state, stay, draw with strength, stroke, + swear, terror, X thee, X by them, X themselves, X thine own, X thou, through, X throwing, + thumb, times, X to, X under, X us, X wait on, (way-)side, where, + wide, X with (him, me, you), work, + yield, X yourselves.
5869 `ayin ah'-yin probably a primitive word; an eye (literally or figuratively); by analogy, a fountain (as the eye of the landscape):--affliction, outward appearance, + before, + think best, colour, conceit, + be content, countenance, + displease, eye((-brow), (-d), -sight), face, + favour, fountain, furrow (from the margin), X him, + humble, knowledge, look, (+ well), X me, open(-ly), + (not) please, presence, + regard, resemblance, sight, X thee, X them, + think, X us, well, X you(-rselves).
6005 `Immanuw'el im-maw-noo-ale' from 5973 and 410 with a pronominal suffix inserted; with us (is) God; Immanuel, a type name of Isaiah's son:--Immanuel.



587 'anachnuw an-akh'-noo apparently from 595; we:--ourselves, us, we. 589 'aniy an-ee' contracted from 595; I:--I, (as for) me, mine, myself, we, X which, X who.
595 'anokiy aw-no-kee' sometimes {aw-no'-kee}; a primitive pro.; I:--I, me, X which.

2248 hemas hay-mas' accusative case plural of 1473; us:--our, us, we.
2249 hemeis hay-mice' nominative plural of 1473; we (only used when emphatic):--us, we (ourselves).
2254 hemin hay-meen' dative case plural of 1473; to (or for, with, by) us:--our, (for) us, we.
2257 hemon hay-mone' genitive case plural of 1473; of (or from) us:--our (company), us, we.

[didymus]

Bandit, i am not saying that there is more than one or that there ever was more than one god. i'm reading what is in the bible. my point is that they who wrote the book may have believed in more than one god.
i got news for you, the garden of eden is not exclusive to the jewish religion. read up on the sumerians, legends of gilgamesh and you'll see. remember abraham came out of ur, which was in ancient sumer. at that time there wasn't a jewish religion. they got their creation and garden story from other sources, or are you gonna tell me that satan did that too?

and to comment on the use of us in genesis. us means us. god wasn't making soup in the kitchen talking to himself. man wrote this and that is how man saw God at that time. man seemed to view god in the plural or so it would seem from what it says in genesis.