Noahs day

[Bandit]

Originally Posted by lunamoth

Hi Bandit, thank you. I don't need any more STUFF either. The best thing about moving is giving away a lot of stuff and putting that detachment thing into practice.

sweep sweep swep, the dirt right out the door. I know some of it is good stuff but we do have so much STUFF.

Originally Posted by lunamoth

Yes, I admit that at times it feels like things are building up to something, that all the evil and misfortune in the world are approaching a breaking point, how can we go on with children starving and people freezing in Pakistan because they don't have enough tents. The gap between rich and poor ever increasing, reality TV...sorry, just trying to lighten up a bit there. But I also think that every generation feels this way to an extent, yet we are better off than people were before things like antibiotics. It's largely in our perspective.

I know what you are saying & I agree to a point.

I cant say it is just perspective, though I wish it were. This is real life. I can say it is all good, but even Jesus said there is none good but ONE.

We did not have metal detectors for children to pass through & police monitoring halls in school twenty years ago & that is when we were all getting polio shots. We did not have gangs like we have today. We had a visible KKK which is similar IMO, but not living on the streets in hundreds of thousands selling & using drugs to get by on.

Luna, we did not have to lock our front door 30 years ago because people trusted each other. There is a break in every other month on my street & I do not live in a bad neighborhood. I don’t know where the people are coming from. Church & school doors are locked after all the people enter & class begins & they used remain unlocked, because we all trusted. So, we have a generation coming up that thinks this is the normal way to live.

I don’t need to write it all out because we all are aware.

I think the times have changed & there is a lack of love & respect today that was not ‘eagerly present’ back in the 70s & 80s.

Certainly we had days of slavery, no womens rights & unfairness in child labor laws, but quite often I feel like we peaked in the 80s & now things are spiraling back, just different & tougher issues. I cant say everything that pops into peoples heads today is progress like it was for the last century. While it appears to be progress, there are so many issues that there seems to be no absolute answer to it all. Too many new gadgets (junk/stuff) on the market today ends up creating a problem it seems like.

(that may be my perception, at the same time it has graduated to a throw away society & I do not understand that)

Originally Posted by lunamoth

I think that population is part of it. I don't know the latest birth statistics but it seems to me that where I live the trend toward larger families has returned. But, maybe it's just because I moved from the eastern coast to mid-america. Hey, I love large families. The one that made the news recently (and in your other thread) is amazing and makes me think about all those homey things like the Waltons. But the USA aside, take a look at India and see what overpopulation looks like. China took draconian measures to try to pull her population back. It's only logical that more people in the world vying for dwindling resources will mean increasing problems.

Yah, I liked that Dugger family. It was refreshing to me to see them.

I know the USA is blessed more than any country. At the same time I see all these new & rather ungodly religions coming out of nowhere & if you really look at it…the nations that reject God & Jesus (or should say will not allow it freely) have had the biggest problems & that tells me a lot.

it does not have to be that way though. There is enough & we know it, but greed will not allow others to have even a small piece. Families like the Waltons was a way of life & it was real. Harder physically but the overwhelming stress on peoples minds today could not compare, to what it would be waiting for a rain storm to increase our product & delighting in God over the rain. I don’t understand where the family value went over the last decade. The days when family meant something & they worked together & ate together & prayed & went to church together. I know we still have family businesses but not so many like it used to be. Once in awhile I still find the same values.

Originally Posted by lunamoth

But, I am not a social scientist. It could very well be that with a lot more efficient and just distribution of resources, a lot more conservation, and education, populations would level out somewhere and not be a problem.

my thought on that is we are just resources to the rich & corporate world & no loss if 50 million just hit the bucket…we have plenty of people to fill their shoes...as long as we keep enough of the tax money coming in to keep the government moving.

I could go on & on & on…but then it sounds like complaining even though it is a reality.

Originally Posted by lunamoth

I know what you mean, and I think that is these things, rather than an increase in materialism, that is the root of the problem. The disease is fear, insecurity. I don't know if these things are getting worse, but certainly the shrinking size of the world makes it much more apparent. Materialism is a symptom rather than a cause, I think.

Materialism has always been. I remember Jesus telling the rich man who had kept all the commandments from his youth to sell all that he had & give to the poor but he could not do it & went away sorrowful.

I think it is greed & everyone wants ‘power’ today & everyone feels threatened & scared of each other. I think we are in agreement because man has finally populated the globe & in that, we see it more abundant.

Originally Posted by lunamoth

I'm trying to trust people more, without being totally stupid about it of course. But, when the only bad outcome would be embrassment or losing face, or even small amounts of money or whatever, I've decided I need to be less suspicious and more generous. Least costly of all is just to practice letting people be themselves, different from me, and having that be OK, without need to criticize or judge. Least costly, but still hard to do sometimes.

Trust is the biggest issue for me. It is easy to love & forgive & pass a few extra bucks, but when it comes to trust, it is real hard for me to get that back & has taken 5 years or more after someone really breaks that bond. I think it is easier to trust when we are young & friends are easier met. Though mostly they just become acquaintances. It is very rare for me to trust today & when it happens, it just feels right.

Making mistakes or a tiny lie is not the same as flat out betrayal & there is a lot of betrayal in the world. People turn on each other quickly today.

You can try being more generous as long as that does not become abused, which has been the case for many & they just stop all together, like myself. I don’t see watching out for ourselves as a bad thing because no one is going to that for us.

It would be different & easy if there was complete trust in the world. I have been robbed, mugged, my house broken into, hundreds & hundreds of dollars stolen, had a switch blade held to my face, a loaded gun shoved into my gutt, my cars stolen, lived on the streets, falsely accused by law for what?? So some drug addict can spend a week stoned on me & laugh…& I am DONE with the world.

Originally Posted by lunamoth

Fear, and breakdown of family and social support.

I agree to a point it is fear & insecurity but more so it is greed & selfishness from the poorest man to the richest man. The we see the scripture that tells us mens hearts would fail them for fear. This is what happens when the minority who we presume is bad, increases & it spreads to outweigh the good. What went down in N.O., has always been there. It was like stepping on a fire aunt hill & they all came out running & attacking. It did not just happen over night & every inner city today is full of that & it has crept into the small towns too.

Terrorism & gang violence is a very big thing today that did not used to exist on this kind of scale & it has become a way of life. So, I cant say these types of people are doing what they do because of fear, but rather the lack of fear & they create fear for the innocent & those who would do good & bring help. Hard to explain, but there is a shift in every day violence that we did not see 30 years ago.

This is not the same thing as robbing a bank to get ahead, it is about murder, liars who do not care or love themselves & law/government cannot seem to stop it.



I think some of the hype in the media is to make a buck & why do so many thrive on the negative news reports? I do think most of it is real because they know better than to tell too many lies for law suits.

The scripture says it would be as it was in the days of Noah & I don’t think Jesus was just making stuff up. It was covered with gross darkness & man was evil continually. Noah was inside of the Ark for seven days before the rain began…so in realitiy we have not begin to have the rain that destroyed all flesh. The ‘rain’ came 7 days AFTER they were all safe inside the ark (& this is the period we are atill in because people are still coming into the ark for safety & the door has not been shut as of yet.)

So I tend to think one reason we still see light is because the church is still here waiting for her bridge groom & of course Israel is also a special light in its own exceptional way.

Jesus said, Watch ye therefore & pray always. He said, be ye therefore also ready, for in such an hour as ye think not, the son of man cometh.

How, when & where I don’t know, but I believe because there is nothing else to believe in that even compares to the richness of Gods kingdom & His love & mercy.

Originally Posted by lunamoth

Oh, yes sadly there is a lot of 'everyone else is going to hell but us' attitude among the denominations, and between religions in some cases. But that was not what I meant. I mean that when writing on the internet or talking with others we tend to paint in these broad brush stokes about all these "others" who are so much more debauched and greedy than we are. But where are these people? Sure, some outlandish cases make the news and theere are a lot of sick, abused and mentally ill people out there who do terrible things, and then there are the fringe fundamentalist groups like the paranoid militants and terrorists, but for sure aren't all these together still a minority and not really some kind of organized or growing group of people, are they? Isn't the problem more that each of us can give into tempations and vice and greed a little bit of the time, and all together it keeps the whole of society from improving. Shorter version, there is no them, only us.

this is my biggest dislike for Christianity/religion & I don’t think traditions of men change that much. The fry in hell doctrine & they think it is funny. I believe some go to hell & some go to heaven, but I think the bride of Christ will come out as individual people within churches. NOT, just one religion like they profess. I do see an us & them because the body of Christ is different & she knows she is different but not the same as us & them because we are better, but because the bride is special. Religion created us & them because of doctrine. As far as I am concerned the ones who preach hell constantly, have a lack love & they are the ones who go to hell right along with their religion. I could write 100 pages on it with scriptures too. I also see two different & distinct judgments, not just one like others see.

Greed to me is when we want more more more. I am MORE than content with what I have & consider it all blessings from God, not everyone sees it that way.

I would say we are all in the same water, but not everyone is on the same boat or looking for a life line.

After all has been said, the only place I find comfort & true peace & love is the Word & in the spirit of prayer & knowing that Jesus will not fail, because I don’t have anything else to believe in.

[lunamoth]

Originally Posted by lunamoth

I mean that when writing on the internet or talking with others we tend to paint in these broad brush stokes about all these "others" who are so much more debauched and greedy than we are. But where are these people?

OK, perhaps I am way off base after all. Just noticed this article on CNN this morning. It sounds like at least in certain high schools things are getting much worse! I dread my kids' teen years already. Talk about rampant materialism out of control!

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/10/16/prom.canceled.ap/index.html

(edit: looks like that link is not going to work, maybe CNN doesn't allow it or something. anyway, I suppose you can cut and paste to get to the link and read it)

Here's a bit from the intro:

UNIONDALE, New York (AP) -- Brother Kenneth M. Hoagland had heard all the stories about prom-night debauchery at his Long Island high school:

Students putting down $10,000 to rent a party house in the Hamptons.

Pre-prom cocktail parties followed by a trip to the dance in a liquor-loaded limo.

Fathers chartering a boat for their children's late-night "booze cruise."

Enough was enough, Hoagland said. So the principal of Kellenberg Memorial High School canceled the spring prom in a 2,000-word letter to parents this fall.

"It is not primarily the sex/booze/drugs that surround this event, as problematic as they might be; it is rather the flaunting of affluence, assuming exaggerated expenses, a pursuit of vanity for vanity's sake -- in a word, financial decadence," Hoagland said, fed up with what he called the "bacchanalian aspects."

lunamoth

[Bandit]

...continued...

Originally Posted by lunamoth

What is PEER?

Originally Posted by lunamoth

I never knew all the words of that song or what it was about. Thank you. Is it really a Bette Midler song? I think I've heard someone else sing it.

Politics, Economics, Education, Religion.

It is a remake by Bette & I think Judy Collins made it popular right along with wind beneath my wings. Bette does mostly remakes, but I think she is the best! I like her a lot.



I guess the only questions I really have is…do you feel that the tsunami, the 2 major hurricanes & this last earthquake was a lot for one year?

Would you agree that we have been conditioned over the past couple of decades to simply not dwell on the negativity around us to keep our sanity?

And Why or why not?

Do you remember the years of great industry when families lived on well paid factory work & the father could support his family without the mother working? And then when they started moving the factories south & eventually overseas?
It has been replaced by retail & department store jobs.
I still do not understand that & it seems to me that someone out there has billions of dollars by doing this & the money is not being returned to the poor & middle class in the U.S. like it used to be.

I like talking to you Luna because you keep a good outlook without ignoring what is really happening & that is wise IMO.
I am not going to worry too much, because i know ahead of time, all these things must come to pass.

[Bandit]

Originally Posted by mee

so i would agree that it is like Noahs day , people do not heed the warning , but go about what ever they are doing in life , in fact those who give warning are most likely made to look as if they are crazy. this happened in the past and is happening now.

others besides noah and his family ,could have survived if they had been willing to change their life-style ,its the same today

Yet, today’s generation will be without excuse when the great tribulation arrives. Why? Because there are Bible accounts of ancient divine judgments that set a pattern for what God will do in our day. (Jude 5-7) Bible prophecy in course of fulfillment right before our eyes shows conclusively where we are in the stream of time. one verse in the bible which says it all is this one

Get saved from this crooked generation acts 2;40

Mee, i dont think the rain has even begun. what we are seeing is the thunder & lightening, but i do not expect the world to understand that.

[Bandit]

Originally Posted by lunamoth

OK, perhaps I am way off base after all. Just noticed this article on CNN this morning. It sounds like at least in certain high schools things are getting much worse! I dread my kids' teen years already. Talk about rampant materialism out of control!

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/10/16/prom.canceled.ap/index.html

(edit: looks like that link is not going to work, maybe CNN doesn't allow it or something. anyway, I suppose you can cut and paste to get to the link and read it)

Here's a bit from the intro:



lunamoth

i know. i see stuff like that all the time. i freaked out when i went into one of the schools in Ft Lauderdale (to pick up one of the kids for a court case, never the less) & had to walk through metal detectors & was searched by cops.
Not all schools are like that.

i could not get the link to open either. hmmm

Look at the headlines. it is crazy stuff. Luna, I think we have just been conditioned in some bizzare way to think all this is normal.

• Iraq airstrikes kill dozens |

• FBI: Violent crime rate declines again

• Texas bus driver charged with negligent homicide

• Wilma becomes season's 21st named storm | Path

• Police: Wife of TV legal analyst slain |

• Stallone returning for sixth 'Rocky'

there should be a direct link somewhere.
http://www.cnn.com/

[mee]

Originally Posted by Bandit

Mee, i dont think the rain has even begun. what we are seeing is the thunder & lightening, but i do not expect the world to understand that.

true , the great tribulation has not started yet ,but people cannot say that they have not been warned about it .

[truthseeker]

I assume that things have never been much different from Noah's day. I think that we are more aware of over population and crime and all that because communication has brought the world closer together. Strange though, if the world must unite we could be learning of other nations, religions, and cultures on a positive level and then things wouldn't appear to be so bad. But I guess that isn't interesting news, now is it? What better way is there to get the heart pumping but by controversy? Nothing keeps me on my toes like thinking that my next door neighbor could kill his entire family when we really thought he was a nice guy. Though these things could save our lives by knowing, the media is incredibly distasteful. Wickedness and Evil are best served after a Distrust appetizer. Maybe we can use the Blood of Christ to wash it all down.

[lunamoth]

Hi truthseeker, I think we are on about the same wavelength here. Good to see you around again (seems like you havn't been here lately, or perhaps I've just missed your posts!)

lunamoth

[wil]

amen truthseeker...

Right. there is no fear of His wrath when we love Him & do our best to love our neighbor.

seems like from the beginning, every age has had its reason to think...This is the end, the signs are here.

Pray unceasingly....doen't seem like an order...I think that is what we do.

After all God knows what you are thinking before you think it...and is constantly saying yes to your desires (de sire...of the father...of God). So the question is...what are you praying for...what is God hearing 24/7 from you?

is it doom and gloom or heaven and bliss? Your choice, it will be done.

are their more thoughts of what my kids will get into then thoughts of them being the future of peace in our world?

more thoughts of enemies and gossip and whatever others are doing wrong than blessing your family and our planet?

hmmmm.....

God Bless us Everyone, God Bless the Whole Planet, no exceptions.

Sometimes I wonder...you know the straw that broke the camel's back...one more straw....what if it also goes the other way around, what if the world is waiting for one more person to be compassionate, one more to love their neighbor, one more to raise themselves in concsciousness... What if I am the camel...what if the world were waiting for me to be nice, not gossip, not judge....hmmmm

namaste,

[Bandit]

Originally Posted by wil

amen truthseeker... seems like from the beginning, every age has had its reason to think...This is the end, the signs are here.

Pray unceasingly....doen't seem like an order...I think that is what we do.

After all God knows what you are thinking before you think it...and is constantly saying yes to your desires (de sire...of the father...of God). So the question is...what are you praying for...what is God hearing 24/7 from you?

is it doom and gloom or heaven and bliss? Your choice, it will be done.

are their more thoughts of what my kids will get into then thoughts of them being the future of peace in our world?

more thoughts of enemies and gossip and whatever others are doing wrong than blessing your family and our planet?

hmmmm.....

God Bless us Everyone, God Bless the Whole Planet, no exceptions.

Sometimes I wonder...you know the straw that broke the camel's back...one more straw....what if it also goes the other way around, what if the world is waiting for one more person to be compassionate, one more to love their neighbor, one more to raise themselves in concsciousness... What if I am the camel...what if the world were waiting for me to be nice, not gossip, not judge....hmmmm

namaste,

if we do not love God with our whole heart & love our neighbor as ourselves, then we have something to fear & that may be because we fail to fear is why the world gets so out of joint.

some have tried to tell me this is heaven & all is good...i would certainly have to disagree there.

i cant say every age has a reason to think this is the end. no one knows that. there could not be an end without Jesus coming in the middle.
What I would say is when Paul wrote about it, it was his enhusiasm & love for Christ & the body of Christ is what made Him feel & write like he did.
anyone not happy about the return of Jesus, would display something missing in their boat. IMO

I have also heard let there be peace on earth for years. so why are we singing that every sunday? is it because we have hope?
we pray & keep faith in God because we know He will deliver us from all evil & temptation for His own glory.
i have also heard the christ conscious religion, while close, it is not the same message as Christ dying for the sins of the world & without the blood of Jesus no one could be saved from eternal death...that is just the way it is.

i see the end as the begining of eternal life, so i dont really know or care how & when but i do have faith that through all tribulations & no matter how bad the world may get, the God of Noah will not fail & He will deliver those who love Him & those who keep His commandments to the end.

[wil]

some have tried to tell me this is heaven & all is good....i would certainly have to disagree there.

Jesus said the kingdom of heaven was within, look neither low or high, here nor there... and it was said we are in the midst of God, in Him we live and breathe and have our being...

This is it, Heaven or Hell, you manifest your desires by what you percieve. The farmer is smiling for the rain while the golfer is cursing... either could look at it differently, love that free will we've been given, the choice to see the good of the world, silver linings or grey clouds.

i cant say every age has a reason to think this is the end. no one knows that. there could not be an end without Jesus coming in the middle.

I go to used book stores and pick up old spiritual/religious books, the doomsayers, and literal translators have always had their examples of the floods/storms/wars/decadence that have 'proved' that the end is nigh...repent now...or your going to hell, God Bless....

Guess God must have quite a sense of humor to decide we need to say exactly these words or that or we'll not get the prize. Or is 'He' so insecure that he needs constant praise and witholds favors. Somehow I don't think so... doesn't look like unconditional love and forgiveness to me.

[truthseeker]

I concur. I've said somewhere before that God doesn't need our praises and love and undivided attention to be who He is. He doesn't need us to fear Him either - man needs fear of other men to be more than the next man. Whether we believe He exists or not, He still remains. Insecurity and Security is a power trip among men, and if we believe God is like that, He ceases to be an Almighty being. Thinking like that only serves to bring God to the level of man so that we can try to relate. No man can attempt to be as powerful as God unless we attempt to serve the fellow man but then that puts us on the level of every other man - which puts us back at square one. To revere God, to respect God, to love God not as we love ourselves but as to let one another be - isn't that kind of what Jesus talks about? Didn't the people of Ur fear their gods? Isn't the God of Abraham a different God?

[wil]

Isn't the God of Abraham a different God?

I've heard that so often the old testament God v. the New Testament God...and then the Elohem v. Yahweh debate... I think it is all the same God (much as all the Hindu Gods are Krishna...same God) (sidebar...best explanation by a Hindu Priest "To my mother I am a son, to my son I am Father, to my Niece Uncle, and to my Brother, Brother....but it is all me...just different perspectives. The Hindu's who by the way have Jesus as a great guru as well...after all...they sent the wisemen...and maybe he went back to visit in his teens and twenties when he went off to find himself..)

Sorry back on track....but the sidebar is the explanation. Same God...just a different perspective. During Abraham's time we had no belief in control of our lives, we were at the whims of nature and God, wrath and gifts explained our universe. Jesus broke that cycle, told us it was up to us to have the faith, that the power was within. But our ego (Easing God Out) remains strong, hence we tend to forget what Jesus told us 2000 years ago...because it doesn't feed the ego. But look at Orvillie and Wilbur, tinkering in a bicycle shop 100 years ago...from a glider we go to the moon and back, fly around with less effort or thought than Joseph had heading to the census... Why because invention, notoriety, feeds the ego...could you imagine if we used the same effort (or even a mustard seeds worth) on our development of flight spiritually??

namaste,

[Bandit]

Originally Posted by wil

I go to used book stores and pick up old spiritual/religious books, the doomsayers, and literal translators have always had their examples of the floods/storms/wars/decadence that have 'proved' that the end is nigh...repent now...or your going to hell, God Bless....

Guess God must have quite a sense of humor to decide we need to say exactly these words or that or we'll not get the prize. Or is 'He' so insecure that he needs constant praise and witholds favors. Somehow I don't think so... doesn't look like unconditional love and forgiveness to me.

i think you are way off on this. the scripture does indeed say to REPENT & it says with Godly sorrow. it is not just about SAYING exact words, more like living in obedience, watching & praying. it also says the blood of Jesus through faith.
sounds like you are trying to mix different religions with the bible?

[truthseeker]

Originally Posted by lunamoth

Hi truthseeker, I think we are on about the same wavelength here. Good to see you around again (seems like you havn't been here lately, or perhaps I've just missed your posts!)

lunamoth

Hey Luna!