Obama's Birth Certificate

[bob x]

Originally Posted by Netti-Netti

It should be noted in that context that Mr. Berg (1) did not quote law and (2) cites no legal precedent for the opinion he expects the judge to render in the matter.

Maybe Berg was in a hurry to prepare a response, but this is not what you'd expect for an attorney who is sufficiently familiar with the issues to be able to prepare a law suit

Exactly.

Originally Posted by Netti-Netti

Again, the birth certificate question would simply be moot if Obama lost citizenship on account of foreign residency.

Which is ridiculous: nobody loses citizenship just for going to another country for a while. Again, the United States does not let its citizenship be controlled by unilateral acts of other countries. There is only one way you can lose your American citizenship, and that is if YOU take some action to renounce it: taking an oath of allegiance to another country, for example, is renouncing allegiance to the U.S., and most countries would have such a ceremony (just as the U.S. does) to naturalize new citizens. But if citizenship in another country is conferred in some automatic way that does not involve you, personally, renouncing the U.S., then that has nothing to do with U.S. citizenship law. And nobody is even pretending that Obama ever renounced citizenship: BERG is the one who needs to produce an "Oath of Allegiance" (showing Obama swearing to Indonesia, or whatever) before he has even raised an issue.

Originally Posted by Netti-Netti

As for the lack of legal detail in Berg's response to the court's motion to dismiss, it looks odd. And I wonder whether this case was intended principally for rumour mongers and internet propagandists rather than as the focus for a legitimate legal process - i.e., to do Obama damage regardless of whether anything comes of it in the legal realm. Just a theory.

I would disagree in one respect: it is not intended "principally" for rumor mongers, but EXCLUSIVELY for rumor mongers. The utter lack of basis in any law, and the utter lack of any evidence, indicate that the sole purpose is propaganda and harrassment.

Originally Posted by Nick A

still it is quite possible that what those like Berg and Ryter assert are at least in part true

They would need to produce some evidence, otherwise it is on the same level as "possibly McCain is a reptiloid alien". Their track record for dishonesty gives little reason to think the "possibility" has any probability.

Originally Posted by Nick A

the screamingly obvious fact that Obama can clear all this up by releasing the long form of the birth certificate

One screamingly obvious fact is that nothing whatsoever would be cleared up by anything that anybody would do: Berg would just invent a new load of rubbish.
Another fact that ought to be obvious to you is that Obama is not possession of his "long form": you need to talk to the bureau of vital statistics in Hawaii. What Obama was given is the standard birth certificate that is issued to anyone on request, identical in all respects to what Hawaiians use every year to prove their citizenship for purposes of getting a passport or whatever.

[Nick_A]

Bob

One screamingly obvious fact is that nothing whatsoever would be cleared up by anything that anybody would do: Berg would just invent a new load of rubbish.
Another fact that ought to be obvious to you is that Obama is not possession of his "long form": you need to talk to the bureau of vital statistics in Hawaii. What Obama was given is the standard birth certificate that is issued to anyone on request, identical in all respects to what Hawaiians use every year to prove their citizenship for purposes of getting a passport or whatever

You appear to have become so Obamasized that even elementary common sense has been sacrificed for this new savior

If the long form is produced it nullifies all other speculations which seem to suggest that it cannot exist. There simply will be no point in continuing. If it is verified to exist by an impartial judge then that is the end of the matter. If Obama doesn't have it then he can allow its release from the bureau of vital Statistics. If it doesn't exist then we have a problem.

Granted people use the short form for most normal situations. However this has become a constitutional question. it is not an everyday event. This elevates the matter to critical importance. Openly disregarding this need for absolute proof in the form of the long form openly abuses the constitution and anyone that respects the constitution cannot support this abuse.

A person has to decide if they will seek to preserve this new savior at the expense of the constitution or respect the value and importance the constitution provides for the United States

[Nick_A]

At some point it seems something has got to give. If it happens next year and Obama must be removed, can you imagine the riots and protests? These fools risk all this by not settling the issue NOW.

Obama Crimes

For Immediate Release: - 10/06/08

(Contact info and pdf of press release below)
Country is Headed to a Constitutional Crisis
(Lafayette Hill, Pennsylvania – 10/06/08) - Philip J. Berg, Esquire, the Attorney who filed suit against Barack H. Obama challenging Senator Obama’s lack of “qualifications” to serve as President of the United States, announced today that Obama and Democratic National Committee [DNC] filed a Joint Motion for Protective Order to Stay Discovery Pending a Decision on the Motion to Dismiss (which was) filed on 09/24/08.
While legal, Berg stated he is “outraged as this is another attempt to hide the truth from the public; it is obvious that documents do not exist to prove that Obama is qualified to be President.” The case is Berg v. Obama, No. 08-cv-04083.
Their joint motion indicates a concerted effort to avoid the truth by attempting to delay the judicial process, although legal, by not resolving the issue presented: that is, whether Barack Obama meets the qualifications to be President.
It is obvious that Obama was born in Kenya and does not meet the “qualifications” to be President of the United States pursuant to our United States Constitution. Obama cannot produce a certified copy of his “Vault” [original long version] Birth Certificate from Hawaii because it does not exist.

I'm the first to admit that I don't know if the long form exists or not but for the Obama camp to allow this to continue is both arrogant and absurd. If anyone dies as a result of future violent protests if he did have to be removed, their deaths would be his responsibilty.

[bob x]

Originally Posted by Nick_A

even elementary common sense has been sacrificed

Pardon me, but I do not see the remotest of "common sense" in your ranting. Just how "common" is this special "sense" you have? Is there so much as one other person on this board who sees things your way? Has your little faction of Internet rumor-mongers managed to convince, say, a single newspaper out of the thousands across this country that there is anything of substance or interest in your story? You have an attitude of "everybody's out of step but me".

Originally Posted by Nick_A

If the long form is produced it nullifies all other speculations

No it won't. Berg will just come up with a new load of horse manure. When this started, back several months ago, it was "just show your birth certificate and that will end this". But it didn't.

Originally Posted by Nick_A

If it is verified to exist by an impartial judge then that is the end of the matter.

What does this judge have to do with it? He is not in charge of either record keeping in Hawaii, or the certification of a Presidential election.
You say this is like a state trooper asking for your driver's license. Actually, it is a random stalker on the street, following you for blocks demanding that you prove to the Water & Sewage Department that your driver's license isn't a forgery.

Originally Posted by Nick_A

If Obama doesn't have it then he can allow its release from the bureau of vital Statistics.

Berg hasn't applied to the bureau of vital statistics. He has asked a completely irrelevant judge.

Originally Posted by Nick_A

However this has become a constitutional question.

No it hasn't. He hasn't shown anything that raises any kind of a question at all.

Originally Posted by Nick_A

it is not an everyday event.

Yes it is. People are asked where they are from all the time. Everybody knows where Obama came from, just like everybody knows where McCain, Palin, and Biden are from. People are asked to document where they are from, commonly. So Obama gave the document which EVERYBODY ELSE IN THE COUNTRY USES to document that. From anyone else in the country, you would accept that: but Obama, ooooh, he's scary to you because he's black, and that's all that this is about. You make demands that you would never make of, say, Sarah Palin: have you demanded to see the long form of her birth certificate, to prove that the story about her being born in Canada is not true? (That story about her being born in Canada comes from her grandmother, Heather Heath-- well no, actually I just made it up, but it sounds better if I say it came from her grandmother).

And of course, the supreme irony is that what started this all in the first place is when people asked if there was any constitutional issue arising from the fact that McCain, most definitely and indisputably, was born in a foreign country. How much emotional upset have you displayed about that?

[Netti-Netti]

Originally Posted by Nick_A

If the long form is produced it nullifies all other speculations which seem to suggest that it cannot exist. There simply will be no point in continuing. If it is verified to exist by an impartial judge then that is the end of the matter.

.... Openly disregarding this need for absolute proof in the form of the long form openly abuses the constitution and anyone that respects the constitution cannot support this abuse.

Hello again Nick. Still you go on and on about the birth certificate.

It seems that (1) you still haven't read Mr. Berg's response to the court and (2) you have not read the article by Mr. Ryter that you cited in your post #86. If you had actually read these sources, you would know that this case does not hinge on the birth certificate being authenticated.

It is astonishing to me that someone so ill-informed would continue to make pronouncements about a complex legal matter. My impression is that you either don't understand the issues or apparently you want to deliberately misrepresent the issues. This case does not hinge on the birth certificate being authenticated. The issue is residency, which has the potential to make the birth certificate issue moot and totally irrelevant.

The residency issue was taken up in Bob's post, directly above yours. For some reason you completely ignore the issue of residency and focus exclusively on the birth certificate issue even though Bob and I both have taken the trouble to explain the residency issue to you. It seems you're not interested in anyone's point of view except your own. You're certainly not interested in the specifics of Mr. Berg's law suit. His contentions are very clearly concerned with residency.

It also seems you are intent on simplifying the matter in order to portray Obama as being unwilling to comply with a simple request. In essence, you are engaged in thinly disguised character assassination.

The version of the law suit you are peddling here is shoddy, propagandistic, and simply wrong. You would know that if you had actually read Mr. Berg's arguments after all this time. I encouraged you to read the document several days ago.

There is no law against being flagrantly ignorant. However, one could reasonably argue that a certain level of ignorance would appear to be so willful that it borders on fraud.

"Fraud" is a legal finding. So I'm more inclined to use the term 'mislead.' Your continued focus on the birth certificate issue is just as misleading as the false rumour that you used in your opening post.

A willingness to prejudge and oversimplify the matter is evident. It is not totally unexpected given that you were prepared to pass along an unconfirmed rumour in the OP, for which you have yet to apologize.

You started out with a nonexistent legal finding and have continued to argue its implication even after Mr. Berg himself debunked the rumour two (2) days before your opening post for this thread!! In other words, you didn't do a fact check. Now, 110 posts later, you still show no interest in the facts of the matter and continue to repeat the same rant over and over again, like a broken record.

Originally Posted by bob x

...(T)he supreme irony is that what started this all in the first place is when people asked if there was any constitutional issue arising from the fact that McCain, most definitely and indisputably, was born in a foreign country. How much emotional upset have you displayed about that?

Doubling the standard?

[Nick_A]

Netti

You don't have to explain the residency issue. Berg describes it:

http://www.obamacrimes.com/attachmen...aComplaint.pdf

Pick any of the numbers in the document and we can discuss it. First I'll try:

54. For the above aforementioned reasons, Obama needs to immediately supply a
certified copy of his oath of allegiance proving he regained his United States
Citizenship. In addition, Obama needs to furnish a certified copy of his
Certificate of Live Birth to further prove he was born in Hawaii as he claims.
However, if Obama is unable to supply a certified record of his oath of
allegiance, he needs to immediately step down and withdrawal his candidacy for President.
59. Obama is not eligible to run for Office of the United States President as his
mother failed to regain her citizenship after her divorce to Lolo Soetoro, a citizen
of Indonesia, when Obama was a minor and Obama himself failed to regain his
United States Citizenship when he turned eighteen (18). Therefore, Obama is not

a “natural born” citizen.

COUNT THREE
FRAUD

63. Plaintiff hereby incorporates Paragraphs 1 through 62 as if fully set forth herein.
64. Obama committed Fraud upon Plaintiff and the American Citizens by running
for President claiming to be eligible knowing he was not eligible as a result of
his failure to regain his United States Citizenship and by maintaining multi

citizenships with Kenya and Indonesia.

As I see it: first things first. If the long form birth certificate doesn't exist, how is Obama a citizen to begin with. If he did lose his citizenship and refuse to get it back it theoretically does disqualify him but perhaps there is a way around it. But if he is perpetuating a fraud, he simply is not qualified.

It also seems you are intent on simplifying the matter in order to portray Obama as being unwilling to comply with a simple request. In essence, you are engaged in thinly disguised character assassination.

I am not trying to disguise anything. Fraud is fraud. If he is trying to protect a document that isn't there, it is lack of character.
As you can read, this question of residency is complex and may become hard to prove. However the birth certificate can be produced. I should have said that he also should supply a record of his oath of allegiance as requested by Berg. But if the birth certificate is a fraud it is for me the central issue since then there is no citizenship to be regained..

[Nick_A]

Bob

Yes it is. People are asked where they are from all the time. Everybody knows where Obama came from, just like everybody knows where McCain, Palin, and Biden are from. People are asked to document where they are from, commonly. So Obama gave the document which EVERYBODY ELSE IN THE COUNTRY USES to document that. From anyone else in the country, you would accept that: but Obama, ooooh, he's scary to you because he's black, and that's all that this is about. You make demands that you would never make of, say, Sarah Palin: have you demanded to see the long form of her birth certificate, to prove that the story about her being born in Canada is not true? (That story about her being born in Canada comes from her grandmother, Heather Heath-- well no, actually I just made it up, but it sounds better if I say it came from her grandmother).

The requirements to become president are an essential part of the constitution. We have an obligation to authenticate them. It has nothing to do with religion or race. To suggest it does and to try to make a racial issue out of a constitutional question just means you don't value the constitution which is based on equality

[kiwimac]

Shall we take a look at these quotes?

1:

"I ceased to advertise my mother's race at the age of 12 or 13, when I began to suspect that by doing so I was ingratiating myself to whites."***

Here is the FULL quote.

W]hat strikes me most when I think about the story of my family is a running strain of innocence, an innocence that seems unimaginable, even by the measures of childhood. My wife's cousin, only six years old, has already lost such innocence. A few weeks ago he reported to his parents that some of his first grade classmates had refused to play with him because of his dark, unblemished skin. Obviously his parents, born and raised in Chicago and Gary, lost their own innocence long ago, and although they aren't bitter; the two of them being as strong and proud and resourceful as any parents I know; one hears the pain in their voices as they begin to have second thoughts about having moved out of the city into a mostly white suburb, a move they made to protect their son from the possibility of being caught in a gang shooting and the certainty of attending an underfunded school.

They know too much, we have all seen too much, to take my parents' brief union; a black man and a white woman, an African and an American at face value. When people who don't know me well, black or white, discover my background (and it is usually a discovery, for I ceased to advertise my mother's race at the age of twelve or thirteen, when I began to suspect I was ingratiating myself to whites), I see the split-second adjustments they have to make, the searching of my eyes for some telltale sign. They no longer know who I am.

2:

From Dreams of My Father** : "I found a solace in nursing a
pervasive sense of grievance and animosity against my mothers race."**

According to Snopes.com [quote]No such sentence (nor anything close to it) appears anywhere in either Dreams from My Father or The Audacity of Hope. This statement was taken from a March 2007 article about Barack Obama; they are not Obama's own words, but rather those of the article's author (recast in the first person.) Link to article

3:

**: "There was something about him that made me wary, a little too sure of himself, maybe. And white."**

Full quote follows:

This statement comes from page 142 of Dreams from My Father, as part of a passage in which Barack Obama was being interviewed by a man named Marty Kaufman for a position as a community organizer in Chicago. Kaufman was specifically looking for a black man to work with him, because he was white and needed someone to help him appeal to both sides in a racially polarized city. The statement reproduced above creates a false impression by eliding the ending to the final sentence: Obama makes reference (in his expression of misgivings) to Kaufman's whiteness being a problem, because Kaufman himself had said it was a problem:
"…I had all but given up on organizing when I received a call from Marty Kaufman. He explained that he'd started an organizing drive in Chicago and was looking to hire a trainee. He'd be in New York the following week and suggested that we meet at a coffee shop on Lexington.His appearance didn't inspire much confidence. He was a white man of medium height wearing a rumpled suit over a pudgy frame. His face was heavy with two-day-old whiskers; behind a pair of thick, wire-rimmed glasses, his eyes seemed set in a perpetual squint. As he rose from the booth to shake my hand, he spilled some tea on his shirt ...

He ordered more hot water and told me about himself. He was Jewish, in his late thirties, had been reared in New York. He had started organizing in the sixties with the student protests, and ended up staying with it for fifteen years. Farmers in Nebraska. Blacks in Philadelphia. Mexicans in Chicago. Now he was trying to pull urban blacks and suburban whites together around a plan to save manufacturing jobs in metropolitan Chicago. He needed somebody to work with him, he said. Somebody black.

He offered to start me off at ten thousand dollars the first year, with a two-thousand-dollar travel allowance to buy a car; the salary would go up if things worked out. After he was gone, I took the long way home, along the East River promenade, and tried to figure out what to make of the man. He was smart, I decided. He seemed committed to his work. Still, there was something about him that made me wary. A little too sure of himself, maybe. And white; -- he'd said himself that that was a problem.

4:

"It remained necessary to prove which side you were on, to show your loyalty to the black masses, to strike out and name names."**

This sentence appears on page 101 of Dreams from My Father, as part of a long passage in which Barack Obama talked about his time at Occidental College in Los Angeles. It was another expression of a theme touched on in many other sections of the book; the difficulties of being expected to associate oneself with a particular racial heritage, especially for those who came from multiracial backgrounds; prompted by the example of a girl named Joyce, one of Obama's classmates:

But this strategy alone couldn't provide the distance I wanted, from Joyce or my past. After all, there were thousands of so-called campus radicals, most of them white and tenured and happily tolerant. No, it remained necessary to prove which side you were on, to show your loyalty to the black masses, to strike out and name names.

5:

"I never emulate white men and brown men whose fates didn't speak to my own. It was into my father's image, the black man, son of Africa , that I'd packed all the attributes I sought in myself, _the attributes of Martin and Malcolm, DuBois and Mandela_."**

This statement is a rewording (two separate sentences have been conflated into one, further changing an intended meaning already obscured by the lack of context) of material from page 220 of Dreams from My Father. The material appears as part of a passage in which Barack Obama describes his profound disappointment in learning (from information provided by his half-sister, Auma) that the lofty image he had held all his life of his role model, his biological father (a man he barely knew, because Barack's father had left him and his mother when Barack was just two years old, and Barack had only seen his father once since then), was a flawed, idealized one.

Full quote

Yes, I'd seen weakness in other men; Gramps and his disappointments, Lolo [my adoptive father] and his compromise. But these men had become object lessons for me, men I might love but never emulate, white men and brown men whose fates didn't speak to my own. It was into my father's image, the black man, son of Africa, that I'd packed all the attributes I sought in myself, the attributes of Martin and Malcolm, DuBois and Mandela. And if later I saw that the black men I knew fell short of such lofty standards; if I had learned to respect these men for the struggles they went through, recognizing them as my own; my father's voice had nevertheless remained untainted, inspiring, rebuking, granting or withholding approval. You do not work hard enough, Barry. You must help in your people's struggle. Wake up, black man!

Now, as I sat in the glow of a single light bulb, rocking slightly on a hard-backed chair, that image had suddenly vanished. Replaced by ... what? A bitter drunk? An abusive husband? A defeated, lonely bureaucrat? To think that all my life I had been wrestling with nothing more than a ghost!

5:

**: "I will stand with the Muslims should the political winds shift in an ugly direction."**

Full quote

This statement is a rewording of a passage from page 261 of The Audacity of Hope, in which Barack Obama spoke of the importance of not allowing inflamed public opinion to result in innocent members of immigrant groups being stripped of their rights, denied their due as American citizens, or placed into confinement, as was done with Japanese-Americans during World War II. The original contains no specific mention of "Muslims":

In the wake of 9/11, my meetings with Arab and Pakistani Americans, for example, have a more urgent quality, for the stories of detentions and FBI questioning and hard stares from neighbors have shaken their sense of security and belonging. They have been reminded that the history of immigration in this country has a dark underbelly; they need specific reassurances that their citizenship really means something, that America has learned the right lessons from the Japanese internments during World War II, and that I will stand with them should the political winds shift in an ugly direction.

Context is everything and lying by omitting or adjusting words in order to change the context is simply wrong.

[Tao_Equus]

Originally Posted by kiwimac

Context is everything and lying by omitting or adjusting words in order to change the context is simply wrong.

It is a revealing obsession though....

[Dream]

Tao, you're not from the USA. It is clear that Obama secretly hired people to accuse him falsely knowing full well they'd be soundly rebutted. I think its a sign of how evil he is. He shouldn't be manipulating us like that.

[Nick_A]

Again, you are missing the essential point by getting bogged down in details of who said what and what was really meant. The same is true with the Obama Odinga relationship. Something has happened but exactly what is hard to say:

Senator Barack Obama in Kenya > Obama and Odinga: The True Story « African Press International (API)

While it may be true that there are too many claiming for some reason to be Christian, why support the destruction of some?

Odinga’s supporters went on a rampage—burning Kikuyu homes and businesses, (“Ethnic Cleansing in Luoland” The Economist 2/7/2008) raping Kikuyu women, and murdering everyone in their path—including at least 50 Christian Kikuyu woman & children who had sought refuge in a church. They burned them alive. (“Mob Burns Kenyans Seeking Refuge In Church” CNN 1/10/2008)

There is reason to believe that Obama did not have the best interests of the United states at heart:

Clearly, Obama campaigned for someone who is corrupt, ruthless and has financial ties to terrorists. More importantly, Obama campaigned for a candidate who had the stated objective of dismantling US & Kenyan government efforts to root out Al Queda and other terrorist organizations. Organizations that had already caused the deaths of hundreds of Americans and Africans in embassy bombings. Senator Obama’s actions—intentional or not—were in direct conflict with the efforts and interests of US national security. I think this raises serious questions about the judgment, maturity and readiness of Senator

Only a fool will not admit that there are many loose ends. If so, why trust obama? It is natural to question his citizenship and for the sake of the constitution to ask for the proofs he should be proud to reveal. Yet he doesn't. Look at all the lawyers that are involved in the following document that basically says that Berg doesn't have the right to these documents. Now that is scary. Since when are the people no longer qualified to question and demand verification? But this is what these lawyers claim.

http://www.obamacrimes.com/attachments/029_Obama,%20Defense%20request%20for%20Protective% 20Order%20re%20Discovery.pdf

II. Discussion
Rule 26(c)(1) authorizes the Court to enter a protective order to protect a party
“from annoyance, embarrassment, oppression, or undue burden or expense,” including an
order forbidding the discovery or specifying terms for discovery. “While the court should
not automatically stay discovery because a motion to dismiss has been filed, ‘a stay is
proper where the likelihood that such motion may result in a narrowing or an outright
elimination of discovery outweighs the likely harm to be produced by the delay.’” 19th

St. Baptist Church v. St. Peters Episcopal Church,

190 F.R.D. 345, 349 (E.D. Pa. 2000),

quoting Weisman v. Mediq, Inc

., 1955 WL 273678, 1995 U.S. Dist. LEXIS 5900 *2 (E.D.

Pa. 1995). “Where a pending motion to dismiss may dispose of the entire action and
where discovery is not needed to rule on such motion, the balance generally favors
granting a motion to stay.” Weisman, 1995 U.S. Dist. LEXIS at *5.
In Weisman, in which this Court found that a motion to dismiss could be decided
on the pleadings, and could be decided in a relatively short time period, the Court granted
a stay of discovery. Similarly, in Norfolk Southern Rwy Co. v. Power Source Supply,
Inc., 2007 U.S. Dist. LEXIS 15306 (W.D. Pa. 2007), defendant filed a motion to dismiss
based on lack of subject matter jurisdiction; plaintiff served interrogatories and document
requests while that motion was pending. The court granted defendant’s motion for a
protective order staying discovery, ruling that, “where, as here, an objection to the
Court’s jurisdiction made under Rule 12 might compel the dismissal of an entire action,
the Court finds that considerations of fairness and efficiency suggest the prudence of
limiting discovery to those facts necessary to resolve the motion. Because the Parties in
this matter have fully briefed the jurisdiction issue and await only the Court’s ruling,
Case 2:08-cv-04083-RBS Document 15 Filed 10/06/2008 Page 6 of 10
DMEAST #10127159 v1

4

discovery in this case shall be stayed and Defendant protected from the requests that
Plaintiff has already propounded.”

Id. at *4.

In this case, as in Weisman and Norfolk Southern Rwy., defendants’ pending
motion to dismiss for lack of subject matter jurisdiction would dispose of the entire
action. The motion does not involve any disputed issues of fact: defendants contend that,
as a matter of law, plaintiff lacks standing to challenge the qualifications of a candidate
for President and that there is no federal cause of action that could serve as a means for
such a challenge. Thus, discovery is not needed in order to rule on the motion. In these

circumstances, a stay of discovery is warranted and appropriate.

So essentially they are saying Berg is asking for too much, delay is preferable, and Berg "lacks standing to challenge the qualifications as cndidate for president......" A citizen then doesn't have the right to see if a candidate is qualified. Just vote on what you are told and not on what has been verified when doubt warrants verification.

The more I read on all this convinces me that it is essential that Obama produce the essential documents. If not and his refusal is accepted, the constitution can never be respected again but must be rewritten in the form of a politically correct constitution..

[Nick_A]

It is nice to know there are those like Marie out there. I wish some were here but at least it is nice to know that some with open-minds are still around and haven't been Obamasized

Obama's birth certificate is serious question? by Marie M. — biden, obama, palin | Gather

Obama's birth certificate is serious question?


October 08, 2008 11:47 PM EDT
views: 278 | rating: 7/10 (3 votes) | comments: 6

Power Line Forum | Federal Suit: Obama Not A ?Natural Born Citizen,? Obama & DNC Try To Delay Production of Obama?s Birth Certificate ’Till After Election
On August, 21, 2008, prominent lawyer, Hillary supporter, former Pennsylvania Democratic Party official and former Pennsylvania Deputy Attorney General Philip J. Berg, filed a suit in Federal court in Philadelphia alleging that, because of several factual situations, Obama is not a "natural born citizen" as the Constitution requires all candidates for President to be (see http://obamacrimes.com/) and he uses as proof, among other things, the testimony of Obama's paternal grandmother, a half-brother and half sister who say they witnessed that Obama was born, not in Hawaii as Obama claims, but in Kenya.
Most of these allegations could instantly be proven false if Obama were to produce the original, long form copy of his Hawaiian birth certificate for examination. Obama has consistently refused to do this and, instead, Obama's campaign website and his online supporters have offered images of a shorter Hawaiian "certificate of live birth," that many questioned documents experts say is a forgery and, doesn't definitively answer the question anyway.
Now, in legal motions filed in Federal court by attorneys for Obama and the DNC this past Monday, October 6th, Obama and the DNC request that any "discovery" in this case, i.e. the actual production and examination of Obama's original Hawaiian birth certificate, which Berg alleges does not exist because Obama was born in Kenya, be deferred until other legal issues are settled, in effect, postponing production of the birth certificate in question until after the November 4th Election.
This is truly a "Constitutional Crisis" and a Crisis for our Legal System and one that the MSM-deep, deep in the tank for Obama--wants no part in telling us exists, much less covering; you would think that the MSM would at least cover this story to debunk it and for a few laughs but, had I not gone to Berg's website, I would not have known of this latest legal move, which was invisible because not reported by the MSM. The fact that Obama will not just produce this document-a thing easily done and likely to win him many political points, while at the same time, damaging his political enemies--to settle the issue, and the fact that Obama and the DNC are willing to spend money on delaying production of this original birth certificate, tells me that Obama doesn't have one, because it doesn't exist and if it doesn't exist, Obama is disqualified from running for the Presidency, his campaign collapses and Obama, Democrats in general and the Democratic Party are thoroughly discredited and forever indelibly stained by this monumental fraud on the American people and our country's democracy; thus, the stakes for Obama, for Democrats, for the Democratic Party and, most importantly, for our democratic form of government, could not be higher. I am sure there is much frantic activity behind the scenes and that the pressure on the Federal judge hearing this case is enormous.
<b>Can you think of any sane reason why Obama would not pull out his original birth certificate for examination and immediately settle this bothersome, costly and "distracting" suit and this controversy? I can't. </b>
Obama and the DNC, aided by the silence of the MSM, want to keep this Federal suit, these developments, as unknown and quiet as possible, wants the action to be over before we even know that it happened; I suppose the likes of Greta Van Susteren wants to cover the monumentally important story of OJ's new trial and tribulations, instead.
Obama and the DNC are hoping that if Obama wins in November, Obama's Presidency will be a faite accompli, no one will have the guts or will want to go through the monumental Constitutional Crisis and Crisis in our Legal System that would ensue if attempts were made to remove a Constitutionally disqualified President-designate Obama from his position. The potential for riots in the streets by Obama's outraged black supporters (always a threat of implied violence useful to Democrats) is only one of the many dire scenarios one can easily conjure up. Democrats control Congress and all the chairmen of key committees that would be involved in such a Constitutional Crisis are hard-core Democrats. The Democrats probably figure that once they win, they can try every trick in the book, they will fix this problem somehow and evade blame, play dumb, throw up a confusing barrage of conflicting information, say that the citizenship requirement is just an archaic "technicality," unfair and unimportant, point fingers and say they didn't realize there was a "Crisis," and can count on most people to not want to "make waves," "rock the boat," or to want to be part of such a potentially cataclysmic upheaval endangering the peace and tranquility and the very fabric of our democracy--so, one way or the other--the Democrats will smooth things over and make this suit go away, to enter the Bermuda Triangle of unsolved and endlessly disputed controversies like the disappearance of Judge Crater, Chappaquiddick and the Kennedy Assassination.
So, the time to act is now, before the Election and the necessary awareness leading to calls for such action is what Obama and the DNC are trying to prevent, with their legal maneuvering and the MSM is also trying to prevent by their silence on this suit and this issue.

[earl]

Hey Nick A, I betcha you even think that Barack (Hussein) Obama is 1 of those doggone secret terrorist sympathisers too. earl

[kiwimac]

Obama and the DNC are hoping that if Obama wins in November, Obama's Presidency will be a faite accompli, no one will have the guts or will want to go through the monumental Constitutional Crisis and Crisis in our Legal System that would ensue if attempts were made to remove a Constitutionally disqualified President-designate Obama from his position. The potential for riots in the streets by Obama's outraged black supporters (always a threat of implied violence useful to Democrats) is only one of the many dire scenarios one can easily conjure up. Democrats control Congress and all the chairmen of key committees that would be involved in such a Constitutional Crisis are hard-core Democrats. The Democrats probably figure that once they win, they can try every trick in the book, they will fix this problem somehow and evade blame, play dumb, throw up a confusing barrage of conflicting information, say that the citizenship requirement is just an archaic "technicality," unfair and unimportant, point fingers and say they didn't realize there was a "Crisis," and can count on most people to not want to "make waves," "rock the boat," or to want to be part of such a potentially cataclysmic upheaval endangering the peace and tranquility and the very fabric of our democracy--so, one way or the other--the Democrats will smooth things over and make this suit go away, to enter the Bermuda Triangle of unsolved and endlessly disputed controversies like the disappearance of Judge Crater, Chappaquiddick and the Kennedy Assassination.
So, the time to act is now, before the Election and the necessary awareness leading to calls for such action is what Obama and the DNC are trying to prevent, with their legal maneuvering and the MSM is also trying to prevent by their silence on this suit and this issue.

Why so much FEAR about Obama?

[Nick_A]

Originally Posted by earl

Hey Nick A, I betcha you even think that Barack (Hussein) Obama is 1 of those doggone secret terrorist sympathisers too. earl

That is a different issue. I am concerned that he was such a part of ACORN that is now heavily being investigated for voter fraud as well as his well known ties to thise like the delightful Rev. Wright and Bill Ayers. In short, I don't know Obama. However this deliberate stonewaling as to his qualifications for the presidency is an obvious black mark against his charcter so for me there is a lot to be concerned with this man.

None of this has anything to do with the essence of this thread which is if he was actually born in America and a naturalized citizen.