Obama's DNC Acceptance Speech

[path_of_one]

Originally Posted by Tao_Equus

And sorry POO, if you can put Mcain and Obama in the same sentance I know the future.........no change

I'm a little lost what you mean, but if you mean you expect no change because I don't expect that much change out of either of them... remember I can be quite cynical about politics. I do think Obama cares. That's hopeful. I'm just realistic about what a president can do unless he has full support of the Congress, and about the problems of having more social programs with less money...

You know... the devil is in the details.

But I do believe Obama cares and I *want* to back a leader really badly. Though I'm not a real authority-lovin' person, I would love a leader I can really stand behind. But after an entire lifetime (granted, not the longest lifetime) of seeing promise and then nothing delivered in my government... well, I'm not exactly hopeful anymore when I hear a promise. I'll believe it when I see a plan to get to the promise.

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by path_of_one

... I'll believe it when I see a plan to get to the promise.

I can understand and agree with that.

[Netti-Netti]

Originally Posted by lunamoth

Not as enthused with McCain's VP choice from what little I know of her. If he chose a woman just to try to get the women's vote...blah on that.

Attempts to find some redeeming value in McCain's choice for VP strike me as quite silly. This observation from arch conservative Michael Savage seems realistic and to the point:

McCain has thrown the election. It is clear now with his choice for Vice President that he has no desire to win in November. Why else would he chose an inexperienced woman, whose only apparent qualification is that she won a beauty pageant in the 1980s? ....If McCain had chosen Mitt Romney, a man with real leadership ability, real charisma, and real experience, he might have stood a chance.

McCain has dropped the ball, thrown in the towel, and raised the white flag.

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by Netti-Netti

Attempts to find some redeeming value in McCain's choice for VP strike me as quite silly. This observation from arch conservative Michael Savage seems realistic and to the point:

McCain has thrown the election. It is clear now with his choice for Vice President that he has no desire to win in November. Why else would he chose an inexperienced woman, whose only apparent qualification is that she won a beauty pageant in the 1980s? ....If McCain had chosen Mitt Romney, a man with real leadership ability, real charisma, and real experience, he might have stood a chance.

McCain has dropped the ball, thrown in the towel, and raised the white flag.

1948 - Truman runs against Thomas E. Dewey, the Republican nominee in the 1948 presidential election. The scientific pollsters, including George Gallup, all predicted that Dewey would beat Truman. (Gallup had won a dramatic bet by correctly predicting the outcome of the 1936 election.) Newspapers were so sure the pollsters were right that they printed the headline, "Dewey Beats Truman." But they were wrong.

Truman beat Dewey and the race wasn't even that close (Truman won by 3.5 percentage points). What had gone wrong? The pollsters had stopped polling a week before the election. They thought that people's votes would not change before the election. But in 1948 there were two strong independent candidates whose support eroded away in the last week. By stopping their polling too soon, the pollsters missed this shift away from the third party candidates back to the major parties. Since most of the votes shifted to Truman, he won the election.

moral of the story...don't count the chickens...

[path_of_one]

I think all people who vote for McCain should be concerned that the dude's 72 and had melanoma (which recurs with alarming frequency) and his VP, who would be president if he dies, is a person who had 2 years being governor of a relatively unpopulated state and has *no foreign policy experience*.

Yeah, because that's what we need in times like these.

And McCain gets on Obama's case for lacking experience? But then picks that person as a VP?

McCain had some respect (though not a lot of agreement) from me before:
1. Resorting to playground tactics with those stupid and sophomoric "celebrity" ads against Obama. Does he think we're all that stupid? I found the ads insulting to my intelligence.
2. Basically picking a chick for VP to try to get some votes from Hillary supporters.

Personally, I think (and hope) that move will backfire. Most religious right don't like women in power and if they don't imagine that scenario due to a McCain medical issue, they're being extremely short-sighted. Much of the conservative religious right believe a woman with 5 kids should be at home taking care of the kids, not running the country. Conversely, I can't imagine any Hillary supporting feminist voting for a woman who is pro-life. Period. Every feminist I know who wanted Clinton is strongly pro-choice. I think McCain misunderstands the feminist agenda, but who knows.

I'm a total cynic. After seeing the Bush/Gore thing, I think McCain will win somehow because that decision is made behind closed doors, more or less. I don't trust my government as far as I can toss them. I think we're run by corporations and private interest groups, and I think many of the elite want to screw over the American middle class as long as they possibly can eek money out of us. Who knows? Maybe there will be A Great Change. Maybe Obama will be elected and the world will be all rosy. Maybe by some stretch of the imagination McCain will be elected and not continue to line the pockets of Halliburton and Blackwater.

But I doubt it. Recent history indicates we are rapidly becoming a country owned by business, with a strong leaning toward taking away civil liberties and a disappearing middle class. Yikes.

[greymare]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

In track and field, it is called "the outside smoker", the one who comes from behind everyone to take the lead. (sixth lane runner).

It is going to be interesting...these next couple of months...

just a little off topic,
over here we call that a "bradbury"
from Bradbury(cant remember his first name) who won the first ever Australian Winter Olympic Speed Skating Gold medal cos everyone else fell over. LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

[Nick_A]

I have never read a better quote describing Obama:

"The secret of the demagogue is to make himself as stupid as his audience so they believe they are as clever as he." KRAUS

Change, as was used at the convention, is an emotional appeal to pride and egotism, Not once did he admit that he must change and that those in the audience must change. No it is the emotional appeal that somehow the world must change to suit us.

"Everyone thinks of changing the world, but no one thinks of changing himself". Tolstoy

Obama never spoke about how he would change and no one at the convention spoke of how they would change and yet it is believed that somehow beneficial change is possible even with this ignorance.

I've been around long enough to recognize a talented demagogue but refuse to be conned by empty emotional appeal.

Where I see Obama as a talented politician and dangerous in the ways that Communism is dangerous, I like Sarah Palin. She has substance and values. It should be a man's job to get down and dirty and clean the political house and throw out the sleaze. But men become corrupt and she is forced to go in, kick butt, and get rid of the sleaze as she did in Alaska. Well good for her. Anyone with intelligence and with such character is a welcome influence is Washington and a healthy contrast to the empty rhetoric I heard at the Democratic convention.

[I, Brian]

Originally Posted by lunamoth

OK, when I decided to watch this I did not feel like I was going to be watching history being made...that seemed kind of like hype to me.

But, by mid-way through that speech I had chills running down my spine...man, that guy can orate! That was by far the best speech I've ever personally heard, and you can just tell that this guy is for real.

(Unlike his running mate, who is probably fine but comes off like a used-car saleman).

So, I feel like I did witness history last night. I hope we see history made again in November.

Caught a clip on the BBC - didn't think of it as history being made (I figure that's reserved for an inauguration speech at the WhiteHouse) - but his response to claims of lack of patriotism I thought was pretty brilliant:

So let us agree that patriotism has no party. I love this country, and so do you, and so does John McCain. The men and women who serve in our battlefields may be Democrats and Republicans and Independents, but they have fought together and bled together and some died together under the same proud flag. They have not served a Red America or a Blue America - they have served the United States of America.

[earl]

After 8 years of Bush, there's no way a Republican will win. This election is still to some degree going to be a referendum on Bush. And Obama will continue to effectively remind voters of how McCaine voted with Bush 90% of the time. Then his VP pick is to the right of Jesse Helms. Earl

[wil]

I agree Obama is an orator, like Clinton and Reagan, he has great stump appeal.

As for our election is as usual down to the electoral college votes.

Obama had the lead ever since Hillary backed off months ago, however McCain climbed steadily and even took the lead for two weeks, increasing his solid states and moving more into the toss up camp (11 states, 125 votes currently) Obama regained the lead three days after selection of Biden. But so far got zero bounce from this great speech and convention!

Completely negated by McCains congratulatory commercial and VP selection?? So far the answer to that is yes. Again neither of these candidates or their VP selection has moved me to move off of a third party vote. But at this juncture, we'll have to wait for the debates and the slanderous commercials to sway the tide as with the RNC coming up, and McCain still with some momentum...it looks like the elephants will stay in the White House and may even take back some seats in the Capitol.

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by earl

After 8 years of Bush, there's no way a Republican will win. This election is still to some degree going to be a referendum on Bush. And Obama will continue to effectively remind voters of how McCaine voted with Bush 90% of the time. Then his VP pick is to the right of Jesse Helms. Earl

lol, I guess we will see in about two months....

[Nick_A]

Originally Posted by earl

After 8 years of Bush, there's no way a Republican will win. This election is still to some degree going to be a referendum on Bush. And Obama will continue to effectively remind voters of how McCaine voted with Bush 90% of the time. Then his VP pick is to the right of Jesse Helms. Earl

Don't be so sure. The Iraq war will be virtually over by then and people are not against conservative Republican principles but rather the corruption of politics and these principles. Sarah Palin is a breath of fresh air. She isn't your typical political feminist She is a woman who smells clean with a good head on her shoulder. Obama comes in with all the artificial theatrics and she comes in a pickup truck with a fishing rod serving moose stew ready to clean house. She is also smart as a whip and knows about the energy question.

It is quite possible that the contrast she brings will be a turn on to believe that reformation is really possible and McCain is serious about it. With Obama one senses it is BS and as time goes on, her presence will make it more obvious.

It is quite possible that her selection for VP will be proof that McCain actually wants to clean house which is impossible for Obama and his extreme socialism which only leads to more beaurachracy and its associated corruption.

It will be a fascinating race

[Netti-Netti]

Originally Posted by Nick_A

Sarah Palin is a breath of fresh air.... she comes in a pickup truck with a fishing rod serving moose stew

Hi Nick, Good of you to highlight her qualifications as someone who could function in the capacity of Commander-in-Chief. At least you didn't say she's a woman who'd look good in a Hilary pants suit.

Despite conservatives' frantic efforts to get some mileage out of it, I notice the liberal reaction has been very tame. I suspect liberals realize McCain's running mate pick speaks for itself as a decision that reflects badly on him and also as an indication of the limited pool of talent the conservatives have available to them. A sad commentary.

I expect the Republican voter turnout will be fairly low at election time.

[path_of_one]

Originally Posted by Nick_A

Don't be so sure. The Iraq war will be virtually over by then and people are not against conservative Republican principles but rather the corruption of politics and these principles.

First, the Iraq war is far from over, and I don't see how it will be much improved in three months time.

Second, I and a lot of other people are against conservative Republican principles. It's not just that the Republicans put forth and voted in a person who was incompetent and corrupt (Bush/Cheney). It is also that some of us are genuinely against capitalism (or at least the false brand of capitalism we've long had here), ignoring the poor, helping the rich, leaving the issues of unwanted pregnancy to criminalization, denying gays equal rights under the law, and so forth. There are real liberal to radical leftists in this nation. A lot of us. This does not mean we are not conservative on some issues, but we certainly aren't conservatives in a way that the Republican ticket ever looks appetizing. This is why many of us are independents and consider third party tickets.

Sarah Palin is a breath of fresh air. She isn't your typical political feminist

I don't consider anyone who will criminalize abortion a breath of fresh air. Unlses they have a plan for how to handle unwanted children and streamline the adoption system, and find more families willing to adopt through some sort of culture change program... they are still, like most politicians, ignoring the problem and relying on soundbite methodology. I cannot in good conscience vote for a pro-life person, nor someone who would deny equal rights to someone based on their sexuality. That isn't a breath of fresh air to me. It's the same old conservative right-winger Republican view I've seen for most of my life.

It is quite possible that the contrast she brings will be a turn on to believe that reformation is really possible and McCain is serious about it. With Obama one senses it is BS and as time goes on, her presence will make it more obvious.

I don't think any of them are serious about it. By this point, they're all in bed with corporations. McCain strikes me as less serious about it than Obama. Obama doesn't strike me as a BS-er. He just strikes me as a guy with a vision and no real plan to get there. McCain strikes me as a "here's four more years of Bush" candidate. Because I have yet to hear how anything will be different or improve. I hear the wars will continue on (no doubt continuing to make oodles of cash for Halliburton and Blackwater), rights will continue to be denied to gays, and they won't consider the lower or middle class much but rather continue to improve the wealth of the rich.

I don't care who McCain picks as a VP- if his campaign sees middle America as "whiners" because we're all squeezed by this economic downturn. To me, cleaning house is less important than serving people. And I think McCain is not concerned with the ordinary people, much less the poor.

The poor are the single biggest issue in my belief system- what you do as a society with the downtrodden and the struggling. I have not seen any good Republican response in my lifetime to this issue. So I don't vote Republican.

which is impossible for Obama and his extreme socialism which only leads to more beaurachracy and its associated corruption.

It will be a fascinating race

Obama is extreme socialism? **snorts** This shows how much people do not know what socialism is. Obama is hardly an extreme socialist. LOL And the US is already not a capitalist nation--- it is just that Obama would shift these benefits from the rich to the poor. But any country that bails out major corporations is not capitalist. True capitalism is run by the markets and has no safety net. It also has a closed loop process whereby people pay all the costs of production, which our corporations don't. We really need a better educational system in this country about government and economics.

Second, I find it a sad statement that bureaucracy leads to corruption. That is not necessarily true. My dad works for the US Forest Service. I haven't seen tons of corruption there, just a lot of people doing good work.

Corruption can happen anywhere. We privatized part of military operations through Blackwater, and corruption abounds. We privatized another part of what used to be military operations through Halliburton, and shoddy work has actually killed some of our servicemen (if I remember correctly, 12 alone were killed by electrocution in showers with ungrounded water pumps). Yet this company says problems with their work is not covered under contract so they will not take responsibility for it.

I'd rather have bureaucracy than private corporations that could care less about the lives of our servicemen and women. At least there is some public oversight of bureaucracy. I find it unacceptable that any soldiers die for these stupid reasons. Yet somehow I, with my "socialist" ideals, am the unpatriotic, unAmerican one in McCain's ideology.

[Nick_A]

Originally Posted by path_of_one

First, the Iraq war is far from over, and I don't see how it will be much improved in three months time.

Second, I and a lot of other people are against conservative Republican principles. It's not just that the Republicans put forth and voted in a person who was incompetent and corrupt (Bush/Cheney). It is also that some of us are genuinely against capitalism (or at least the false brand of capitalism we've long had here), ignoring the poor, helping the rich, leaving the issues of unwanted pregnancy to criminalization, denying gays equal rights under the law, and so forth. There are real liberal to radical leftists in this nation. A lot of us. This does not mean we are not conservative on some issues, but we certainly aren't conservatives in a way that the Republican ticket ever looks appetizing. This is why many of us are independents and consider third party tickets.



I don't consider anyone who will criminalize abortion a breath of fresh air. Unlses they have a plan for how to handle unwanted children and streamline the adoption system, and find more families willing to adopt through some sort of culture change program... they are still, like most politicians, ignoring the problem and relying on soundbite methodology. I cannot in good conscience vote for a pro-life person, nor someone who would deny equal rights to someone based on their sexuality. That isn't a breath of fresh air to me. It's the same old conservative right-winger Republican view I've seen for most of my life.



I don't think any of them are serious about it. By this point, they're all in bed with corporations. McCain strikes me as less serious about it than Obama. Obama doesn't strike me as a BS-er. He just strikes me as a guy with a vision and no real plan to get there. McCain strikes me as a "here's four more years of Bush" candidate. Because I have yet to hear how anything will be different or improve. I hear the wars will continue on (no doubt continuing to make oodles of cash for Halliburton and Blackwater), rights will continue to be denied to gays, and they won't consider the lower or middle class much but rather continue to improve the wealth of the rich.

I don't care who McCain picks as a VP- if his campaign sees middle America as "whiners" because we're all squeezed by this economic downturn. To me, cleaning house is less important than serving people. And I think McCain is not concerned with the ordinary people, much less the poor.

The poor are the single biggest issue in my belief system- what you do as a society with the downtrodden and the struggling. I have not seen any good Republican response in my lifetime to this issue. So I don't vote Republican.



Obama is extreme socialism? **snorts** This shows how much people do not know what socialism is. Obama is hardly an extreme socialist. LOL And the US is already not a capitalist nation--- it is just that Obama would shift these benefits from the rich to the poor. But any country that bails out major corporations is not capitalist. True capitalism is run by the markets and has no safety net. It also has a closed loop process whereby people pay all the costs of production, which our corporations don't. We really need a better educational system in this country about government and economics.

Second, I find it a sad statement that bureaucracy leads to corruption. That is not necessarily true. My dad works for the US Forest Service. I haven't seen tons of corruption there, just a lot of people doing good work.

Corruption can happen anywhere. We privatized part of military operations through Blackwater, and corruption abounds. We privatized another part of what used to be military operations through Halliburton, and shoddy work has actually killed some of our servicemen (if I remember correctly, 12 alone were killed by electrocution in showers with ungrounded water pumps). Yet this company says problems with their work is not covered under contract so they will not take responsibility for it.

I'd rather have bureaucracy than private corporations that could care less about the lives of our servicemen and women. At least there is some public oversight of bureaucracy. I find it unacceptable that any soldiers die for these stupid reasons. Yet somehow I, with my "socialist" ideals, am the unpatriotic, unAmerican one in McCain's ideology.

Hello Path

I am referring to a perspective that is diffult to make clear but it is what Conservatism is theoretically based upon. Of course practically we have the corruption normal for human hypocrisy Do me a favor. Click on the following book at Amazon:

Amazon.com: The American Soul: Rediscovering the Wisdom of the Founders: Jacob Needleman: Books

You will see:

by Jacob Needleman (Author) "America was once the hope of the world..." (more)

Click on "more." and tell me if it makes sense to you. If you understand what he means, you'll understand what I am interested in at least partially preserving.