Open Source, Baby!

Dream · 06-16-2009, 07:02 PM

Heard of any new open source accomplishments or potentialities? This is the thread for it. Open Source, Baby!

BBC NEWS | Science & Environment | Hydrogen car to be 'open source'

Avi · 06-16-2009, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dream

Heard of any new open source accomplishments or potentialities? This is the thread for it. Open Source, Baby!

BBC NEWS | Science & Environment | Hydrogen car to be 'open source'

Interestingly, DOE just cut all funding for hydrogen cars in 2010. Another case of the US being out of phase with the rest of the world

wil · 06-16-2009, 07:52 PM

I think the issue is the creation and distribution of hydrogen. We've been running test cars in DC and have a couple of filling stations, but the issue around here is what do you use to create the hydrogen, ie burn coal/diesel to create electricity to create hydrogen...not cost effective...

Avi · 06-17-2009, 06:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wil

I think the issue is the creation and distribution of hydrogen. We've been running test cars in DC and have a couple of filling stations, but the issue around here is what do you use to create the hydrogen, ie burn coal/diesel to create electricity to create hydrogen...not cost effective...

Right Wil, at $2.50 a gallon it is not cost effective, so shut down the hydrogen program. When gas prices go up again, this summer and next year, it will be cost effective, so start up the hydrogen program again, quickly, because we will need it right away.

This has been the history of our energy policy. Plan 5 minutes ahead. The most expensive way to develop energy infrastructure which is possible

Anyway, I won't divert this open source thread any further !!

wil · 06-17-2009, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avi

Right Wil, at $2.50 a gallon it is not cost effective, so shut down the hydrogen program. When gas prices go up again, this summer and next year, it will be cost effective, so start up the hydrogen program again, quickly, because we will need it right away.

This has been the history of our energy policy. Plan 5 minutes ahead. The most expensive way to develop energy infrastructure which is possible

Anyway, I won't divert this open source thread any further !!

Not my point Avi...as long as we are using fuel to create hydrogen it will always be a negative impact on cost and carbon footprint. Now if we were to use solar say..and it were more cost effective to create hydrogen with the solar instead of using the electricity to charge battery operated cars....

It is about loss of energy while trying to create another energy. If we use X to create Y....and then use Y to create Z to run our cars...sometimes it is more effective to use Y to run our cars or even X as each layer causes loss in the process. (not to mention expense to create the manufacture, and infrastructure.) Tis a whole picture thing, macro not just micro focus.

Not to say they are doing this when they make these decisions, but I sure hope they are.

Dream · 06-17-2009, 02:18 PM

Yeah, consistency is most definitely lacking. That is one trade off of the 4 year presidential election cycle. Same as open source, but the drawbacks can be worthwhile.

Extract the Hydrogen from water using electric power from dams, wind, and ocean waves. Don't use fossil fuels for it! (Another secret is to extract the hydrogen from ordinary tap water instead of bottled water, like Dasani)

wil · 06-17-2009, 02:44 PM

BBC NEWS | Technology | Hydrogen refuel station unveiled

a sheet of plastic to create hydrogen?

Avi · 06-17-2009, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wil

Not my point Avi...as long as we are using fuel to create hydrogen it will always be a negative impact on cost and carbon footprint. Now if we were to use solar say..and it were more cost effective to create hydrogen with the solar instead of using the electricity to charge battery operated cars....

It is about loss of energy while trying to create another energy. If we use X to create Y....and then use Y to create Z to run our cars...sometimes it is more effective to use Y to run our cars or even X as each layer causes loss in the process. (not to mention expense to create the manufacture, and infrastructure.) Tis a whole picture thing, macro not just micro focus.

Not to say they are doing this when they make these decisions, but I sure hope they are.

Sorry for the confusion, Wil, I was not saying that you are suggesting an erratic energy policy, I am saying that has been our national policy for at least the last 30 years, so I would expect it to continue.

DOE now says they are going to focus on biofuels and batteries. At $2.00-2.50 per gallon, they will have trouble sustaining a biofuels program, so it will likely die in a couple of years as well.

Batteries should have been on the agenda before hydrogen was killed. So now they are scrambling to develop what was obvious.

These are just a couple of examples. I could give more, but I said I would not hijack Dream's thread further. Perhaps another thread on renewable energy would be interesting ????

wil · 06-17-2009, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avi

I could give more, but I said I would not hijack Dream's thread further. Perhaps another thread on renewable energy would be interesting ????

No worries Avi,

Back to the OP I don't buy any of it. 400 mpg...200 pounds per month lease including fuel and repairs... its a prototype... it won't be ready till 2013...and I'm thinking mpg will go down and lease price will go up...despite the open source...

batteries....love em, but we've got that sticky disposal issue...they need to be recyclable as well as rechargeable...in one way if they can make it work..hydrogen is a battery

Dream · 06-18-2009, 06:18 AM

Funding for auto research was always a joke. It shouldn't take an engineer to fix tiny problems in a car, but it does. Cars should use interchangeable parts, but they don't! That would be minimally ethical.

Avi · 06-18-2009, 06:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wil

Back to the OP I don't buy any of it. 400 mpg...200 pounds per month lease including fuel and repairs... its a prototype... it won't be ready till 2013...and I'm thinking mpg will go down and lease price will go up...despite the open source...

I agree, less than 400 mpg more than 200 pounds. I do like the idea of open source. While we're at it lets make our PC's open source as well (Linux

).

Quote:

hydrogen is a battery

You are right, hydrogen is an energy transporter, and ultimately will be the transporter of choice. While the US is in limbo again, you can be sure the Europeans and Asians will be developing hydrogen fuel cells as well as other fuels, methanol, ethanol and biofuels.