Our Legal System Sucks

[greymare]

I am not sure, but i have tried to enquire, but it seems our judges are appointed by the government, bar association, etc and are generally baristers. Basically, we have no idea who they are unles we have to appear before them. (and then we still dont know).

[DrumR]

Originally Posted by greymare

LOL, thanks for that Wil.
i just thought that a condition of bail would automatically be that "they" werent a threat to society.

stupid, niave old me. lol

Greetings, greymare.

From what I have been given to understand the more important consideration is that the accused citizen will return to the court to face the charges and specification levied against them. One may be released on one's on recognizance, post a surety bond, or be incarcerated while awaiting trial. A person who is considered as a probable "flight" risk is incarcerated.

[greymare]

LOL, i would have thought that the possibility of reoffending would be also a factor. Considering he was on bail and then re arrested, to me is the quandary. LOL.
But then again, Im not the judge, but i sure would like to be, inthis situation. lol

[Muslimwoman]

Originally Posted by Francis king

My way? If I ruled the world... well...

Brilliant post Francis, you'll get my vote for ruling the world.

When you are ruling the world can we lock the violent loonies up again instead of this fluffy care in the community rubbish.

[DrumR]

By the "Authority" vested in me by Snoopy
I hereby make some noise.

OLD NEWS
The prevailing legal presumption concerning the citizenry knowing the law is based upon the concept of the parent or guardian teaching the law to their children/wards.

That the above operating presumption is flawed, for the argument has an inherent circular logical function <1>, appears to have been deliberately overlooked.

When examining those societies where public education is mandated by law then the responsibility would seem to have been transferred from the parent/guardian to the Public Educational Institutions. It is most interesting to find that knowledge of the law is not a fundamental required course within the curriculum of that mandated, by law, public educational system here in the USA.

The US Government's own assessment reports, regarding the overall decline in public educational system <2>, appears to matter little, if at all, to the legal professions in general or to the courts in particular.

The Prosecuting Attorneys, Judges, and Politicians appear most happy with the system as it stands for an uninformed (i.e. uneducated) populace is much easier to use ill and to exercise control over.

When I write of "knowledge of the Law" I do not allude to 'chapter and verse' memorization of a fixed quantity <3> - no, I refer to the underlying foundation concepts of the law itself and specifically as it pertains to the predominately British-derived <4> American legal system.

There is a little known group here in the US that is pressing for a "Fully Informed Jury" concept. Prosecutors and Judges are not enamored with this group for reasons that may become obvious.

Originally Posted by Dream

I would like to try temporarily empowering juries more, because they can nullify laws when convicting or refusing to convict.

This power of juries, as outlined above, is a concept of English Common Law and is one of the many aspects of law that is not taught here in the USA. This references cases at common law, as found in our Constitution. So in reality the jury has that power of law but are kept ignorant of it or are studiously prevented from exercising that power by the exacting of an oath beforehand.

Originally Posted by Dream

I don't fully understand all of the history of our systems, but the process is getting gummed up by so much case history and needs a defrag. We need a defrag.

The first phrase is most telling and when coupled with that which is not taught creates a system that, to use the vernacular, appears to be in need of a de- fragmentation but which is in dire need of the activation of the appropriate sub routines and functions that may be collectively classed as "Knowledge of the Law." So while "the system" may appear outwardly as being cluttered it is in reality a lack; the program runs haltingly from the lack of necessary accessible functions.

Originally Posted by Quahom1

It isn't the various legal systems that are a mess, but rather the People we allow to occupy those legal positions of office...

It is in the general ignorance of the law and of their responsibilities by the constituency that the citizenry re-elects those who occupy the position for a continued term of abuses.

Originally Posted by Dream

The only thing is, I don't know how to make it work so that minorities are protected. I know that judges are too limited by precedents and law is far too complex for citizens.

The underlying concept of reason that Anglo-American law is supposedly to adhere to would indicate that there need be little or no concern of the persecution of minorities for the application of the Reasonable Man Theorums is inclusive rather than exclusionary with few exceptions; the general classes of exclusions being directed at children and the mentally incompetent.

While the legal wording, and its attendant jargon-specific <5> definitions, may appear to be difficult at first and even second glance; the law, is in itself, not as complex as most would lead one to believe. Yet it is in that false belief of the great difficulty in understanding the law that power is wielded over others.

Originally Posted by Dream

Its embarrassing and dangerous when evildoers get rewarded.

Is it not the greater embarrassment when an innocent man is hung? What then does one say to his unlawful widow and children?

Oops, my bad???


Recommended Reading.
A good staring place would be readings from John Locke's "Treatise on Civil Government" and a "Letter on Toleration". It is most fortunate that these two works can be found bundled together under one cover and are relatively inexpensive. The use of the language may be a bit daunting and difficult to follow but reading these works is well worth the effort expended.

NOTES:
1 - "the inherent circular logical function" The argument falls apart should the parent/guardian forget to teach one aspect or the other to the child and that child, upon having himself become an adult and parent/guardian, forgetting some 'minor' aspect in the teaching of the next generation and so on.

2 - A US governmental report released in the late 1980's indicated a 3 years loss in the depth and breath of education as compared to the mid to late 1940's. The situation has become progressively worse.

3 - "fixed quantity" 'As it is written so shall it be done'. But the law is known to be changed on precedent or by additional legislation.

4 - The USA was "born" in the twin ages of Enlightenment and Reason. The concept that the law should adhere to a path dictated by reason was a concept common in both English Common Law and American Philosophy. Most of the 13 proposed amendments to the US Constitution were initially suggested during the time of Cromwell.

5 - "jargon specific" This refers to a common shorthand as found in many fields of endevour. To those "in the know" with in a certain field the use of such shortcuts, or highly specific narrow focus definitions, were developed to facilitate more rapid conceptual communication with others in that same field.

6 - Only remember there is no six!!!

[shawn]

We all know....or should know, that when people speak in legalese they are "up to something".

Our courts of justice are a sham.
We are far from the ideal.
It is all about money and protection rackets these days.