Paul preaches against Creation

[WolfgangvonUSA]

Originally Posted by JJM

This line means that it is Part of the Bible it doesn't matter who wrote it. It’s still cannon. Similarly the last five chapters of Jeremiah weren’t written by him nor are they even his prophecies but that doesn't change their status as biblical text.





However if you really need a Verse our side of the last 12 verses of Mark here:



Luke 10:19

I have given you authority to trample on snakes and scorpions and to overcome all the power of the enemy; nothing will harm you.



It’s not as definite but it does show God giving the apostles power over snakes.

Just because the clearly fallible church claims the longer ending of Mark is canonical does not mean we should abandon our senses and accept a clear forgery.

As to Luke, he was Paul's disciple, not Jesus'. He had never met Jesus, the Twelve Apostles had never met him or mentioned him. And Luke admits in his first chapter that all of his information is second-hand. Luke also contradicts the established apostles on many points. For example, he has Jesus telling the apostles to remain in Jerusalem to wait for the Pentecost, whereas the gospels of Matthew, Mark and John instruct the apostles to leave Jerusalem to go to Galilee. Further, the Holy Spirit was given to Ten apostles in John 20:22. They did not have to wait for the Pauline Pentecost. They went fishing with Yahshua and caught 153 fish.

Hallelu YAH !!

Wolfgang

[WolfgangvonUSA]

Originally Posted by JJM

Paul in the verses following what you quoted states that the things mentioned above are a loss this includes his status as a Pharisee. Furthermore being a Pharisee was belonging to a sect of Judaism if he started following another he obviously stopped his previous. That is like saying this man became a Catholic but never stopped being Baptist that doesn’t make sense.

Judaism arose out of the Babylonian Talmud whereas Hebrewism or Yahwism originated from the Mosaic Penteteuch. But in any case an Israelite could certainly become a Christian and remain devoted to the God of his fathers. There is no conflict between Christianity and the Israelite religion, irrespective of what one calls the religion of the Hebrew Israelites. A Christian Israelite is not a contradiction. But Paul injected the Pharisaic 'tradition of the elders' into Christianity and thereby subverted it from its rightful Path.

Jhn 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

True Israelites follow the voice of Yahshua, the Judahite, but the largely Idumean Pharisees and Herodians who politically dominated the House of Judah were not Israelites but were sons of Esau (Canaanites) and were therefore not receptive to the Word.

[WolfgangvonUSA]

John 20:22 describes how the true apostles received the Holy Spirit long before Pentecost. AND BOTH the Gospels of Matthew AND Mark further substantiate that the apostles were NOT to remain in Jerusalem to wait for the Pentecost, as per Luke 24:49, BUT rather to leave Jerusalem and to go to Galilee to see Yahshua again before His departure. (Pentecost is not even mentioned at all by Matthew, Mark or John.)

Matthew 26:32 But after I am risen again, I will go before you into Galilee.



Mat 28:7 (The angel by the open tomb said And go quickly, and tell his disciples that he is risen from the dead; and, behold, he goeth before you into Galilee; there shall ye see him: lo, I have told you.



Mat 28:10 Then said Jesus unto them, Be not afraid: go tell my brethren that they go into Galilee, and there shall they see me.



Mat 28:16 Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them.



Mark 14:28 But after that I am risen, I will go before you into Galilee.



Mark 16:7 But go your way, tell his disciples and Peter that he goeth before you into Galilee: there shall ye see him, as he said unto you.



John 21:1 After these things Jesus shewed himself again to the disciples at the sea of Tiberias; and on this wise shewed he [himself].




John 21:2 There were together Simon Peter, and Thomas called Didymus, and Nathanael of Cana in Galilee, and the [sons] of Zebedee, and two other of his disciples.





In the END DAYS, (not during the first advent) knowledge of the scriptures shall be increased, as illustrated by the example above, as there is a QUICKENING OF THE HOLY SPIRIT, as foretold by Joel



Joel 2:28 And it shall come to pass afterward, [that] I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:



John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, [they] are spirit, and [they] are life.

It is certain that the Holy Spirit has not yet been poured out among all flesh, what with all the disagreements we have, but this event is sure to happen once the unpolluted gospel is preached to all Nations, but this has yet to be done as Paul's traditions remain firmly embedded in the apostate church. Look to the Dead Sea Scrolls to finally pull the plug on Paul. I strongly suggest that everybody read "James, Brother of Jesus" by Robert Eisenman and "The Dead Sea Scrolls Deception" by Michael Baigent. You can read a review of these books at Amazon.com.

[JJM]

Originally Posted by WolfgangvonUSA

John 20:22 describes how the true apostles received the Holy Spirit long before Pentecost. AND BOTH the Gospels of Matthew AND Mark further substantiate that the apostles were NOT to remain in Jerusalem to wait for the Pentecost, as per Luke 24:49, BUT rather to leave Jerusalem and to go to Galilee to see Yahshua again before His departure. (Pentecost is not even mentioned at all by Matthew, Mark or John.)

Ok I'll start off by saying that Pentecost occurred after the ascension. Number two the apostles weren’t waiting in Jerusalem they had come back to the city on pilgrimage to celebrate Pentecost which was a Jewish holiday also even if they where in Jerusalem for a period of time think about it where better to start spreading the message then the spiritual, political, and economical center of the region. Number 3 it isn't mentioned in any of the Gospel because it came after the ascension so it has nothing to do with the life of Christ. Four the receiving of the Holy Spirit in John is like that of being baptized the Holy Spirit entered them but they didn't receive the fullness of his gifts. They did receive them on Pentecost an event similar to Confirmation where the full gifts of the Holy Spirit are given. And five just because you have the Holy spirit in you doesn't mean you’re always right. Only when he is working through you are you right and even then you can be partly incorrect. Infallibility is only given through extreme divine intervention. I hope I've cleared this up for you.

[JJM]

Sorry I didn’t respond to these I didn't see them I simply went to the last Post.

Originally Posted by WolfgangvonUSA

Just because the clearly fallible church claims the longer ending of Mark is canonical does not mean we should abandon our senses and accept a clear forgery.

Originally Posted by WolfgangvonUSA

As to Luke, he was Paul's disciple, not Jesus'. He had never met Jesus, the Twelve Apostles had never met him or mentioned him. And Luke admits in his first chapter that all of his information is second-hand. Luke also contradicts the established apostles on many points. For example, he has Jesus telling the apostles to remain in Jerusalem to wait for the Pentecost, whereas the gospels of Matthew, Mark and John instruct the apostles to leave Jerusalem to go to Galilee. Further, the Holy Spirit was given to Ten apostles in John 20:22. They did not have to wait for the Pauline Pentecost. They went fishing with Yahshua and caught 153 fish.



Hallelu YAH !!



Wolfgang

Peter caught the fish Jesus just told him what to do. It symbolizes Peter (leader of the early church) as the fisher of men bringing all the nations (at the time there where thought to be 153 Nations) to Christ without any Schisms in Christianity.



Mark never met Jesus either but you accept his Gospel so that is a contradiction. Secondly I never said it was written by Mark I simply said it was cannon. If you don't accept what the church says is cannon then what do you accept? No one knows what the truth is. Obviously most new scholars think that none of the books of the bible are authentic so if you don't accept that cannon why would you accept any books? After all you are the one talking about using your senses.



And I don’t think this is the right place to get into this but what makes you think it is an obviously fallible church. I could understand you say it fallible but what is so obvious about it. Did Christ not say the Gates of hell would never prevail against his church? but you say it was corrupted within ten years. That doesn’t make sense.

[JJM]

Originally Posted by WolfgangvonUSA

Judaism arose out of the Babylonian Talmud whereas Hebrewism or Yahwism originated from the Mosaic Penteteuch. But in any case an Israelite could certainly become a Christian and remain devoted to the God of his fathers. There is no conflict between Christianity and the Israelite religion, irrespective of what one calls the religion of the Hebrew Israelites. A Christian Israelite is not a contradiction. But Paul injected the Pharisaic 'tradition of the elders' into Christianity and thereby subverted it from its rightful Path.

Jhn 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

True Israelites follow the voice of Yahshua, the Judahite, but the largely Idumean Pharisees and Herodians who politically dominated the House of Judah were not Israelites but were sons of Esau (Canaanites) and were therefore not receptive to the Word.

I did not say there was a conflict between Christianity and the Israelites religion. The way (Christianity) was a sect of Judaism and there was also a Pharisaic sect of Judaism. This man can't belong to two sects that are in conflict it is ludicrous. And how did Paul inject this in Christianity by saying that we aren't saved by works of the law. (Which according to the Dead Sea scrolls refers to the laws followed by sects such as the Pharisees)

[JJM]

Originally Posted by WolfgangvonUSA

John 20:22 describes how the true apostles received the Holy Spirit long before Pentecost. AND BOTH the Gospels of Matthew AND Mark further substantiate that the apostles were NOT to remain in Jerusalem to wait for the Pentecost, as per Luke 24:49, BUT rather to leave Jerusalem and to go to Galilee to see Yahshua again before His departure. (Pentecost is not even mentioned at all by Matthew, Mark or John.)

Hi I'd like to apologize for my previous reply to this post. I was in a hurry and I miss read your post. I though you where saying rather than being in Jerusalem at Pentecost they should have been with Jesus in Galilee. Please excuse me. I also thought you where telling me that the other gospels never described Pentecost. Well I was responding of course they didn't but you where referring to Luke's elusion to it. So I'd have to say that you make a very good point here there seems to be a clear contradiction . The rest of your arguments have had some sort of fault in them but this one seems to make sense. I don't know how to respond right now. I can say that in acts Luke says that Jesus was resurrected for forty days before the ascension. But they still didn't leave Jerusalem. All I can say is that there are Contradictions in all the Gospels None of them agree on who first came to the tomb. Also we know that the Sermon on the Mount never really happened. So if I have a response I’ll get back to you. If I can't I'll still respond but I don't know what I'll say yet. SO yeah once again sorry for the former response.

[JJM]

Hello again I was hoping you would respond before I made this post but you haven't so I will go ahead anyway. Once again I ask that you forgive me for that misunderstanding about what you where writing and you don't let it effect how you value what I'm about to say. Yes Luke is the only one who alludes to Pentecost if you think that all the other elusions to it are about the way they received it in John’s Gospel. But as I have said the Holy Spirit was received in John similarly to how He is received in Baptism. However His full gifts where not given until Pentecost. Similarly to conformation and Holy Orders. Now Luke does say that the Disciples never went to Galilee. However that is only because he is saying Jesus was only on earth for a day in order to connect the ascension to the Resurrection. It's a literary device. He, later in Acts, says that Jesus was on earth for 40 days and not until the end did He tell them not to leave Jerusalem. Now the 40 days is symbolic but the point is that Luke new that this didn't all happen in one day. As for Luke being the only one to mention it. He is also the only one who mentions the ascension but you still accept it. John is the only one to mention the first receiving of the Holy Spirit but you don't conclude that John is making it up Just because the others don't mention it. Matthew makes up the Sermon on the Mount to condense all of Jesus' teachings into one sermon but you don't discount his gospel because of it. So why discount Luke for using another literary device to connect to essential points especially when he later tells that what he was doing. Also even if Jesus didn't tell them all to stay in Jerusalem and that was just a rumor heard by Luke they still would have been there for the feast of weeks and they as friends and leaders of a sect would have congregated together. So whether or not Jesus told them to stay they where probably there. Also I did say one other necessary thing in that post just because you have the Holy Spirit in you doesn't mean you’re always right. Only when he is working through you are you right and even then you can be partly incorrect. Infallibility is only given through extreme divine intervention. So I ask that you respond to this thread and my post in the other thread about the law of two or three and I promise to read your post more carefully.