Plato Knew

[AndrewX]

When it comes to the idea of one, Universal world religion, based on one language, and one, universally held knowledge, let us look at what H.P. Blavatsky actually claimed ... and what most Theosophists and students of the Ageless Wisdom have come to accept as the case.

The following excerpt is from an article by Harry Young entitled The Unfolding Script of Speech and Language, found in Sunrise Magazine at the end of 2003 and beginning of 2004:

Writing in 1888, Blavatsky stated that "there was, during the youth of mankind, one language, one knowledge, one universal religion," (SD 1:341). Although The Secret Doctrine refers to a few extremely ancient languages, the oldest that theosophical literature speaks of at length is Senzar, which Blavatsky describes as a secret sacerdotal language: "for there was a time when [it] was known to the Initiates of every nation, when the forefathers of the Toltec understood it as easily as the inhabitants of the lost Atlantis, who inherited it, in their turn, from the sages" going back to the earliest human beings (SD 1:xliii). It remains unknown to modern linguistics, and theosophical literature maintains that it has been unknown to the mass of mankind since global cataclysms caused the divergence of languages from a common tongue, events characterized by flood myths and the biblical allegory of the Tower of Babel. Blavatsky calls it the "direct progenitor" or "root" of Sanskrit, and relates it also to ancient Persian, Japanese, Egyptian hieroglyphics, and Native American languages.

Senzar was a means of communicating the most profound esoteric truths. Although it has its own written characters, its essence lies in part beneath the universal pictograms, glyphs, and geometry used in spiritual traditions, and partly in the storytelling devices and archetypes of allegory, parable, and metaphor found in dreams, mythology, folklore, religions, and the arts. All of us can intuit to a degree the meaning implied in such symbols as a circle or cross, the parables of Jesus, or Grimms' fairy tales. We think in symbols and concepts, in a language some linguists call mentalese, so these are perhaps collective memories of spiritual truths we all once understood that lie still within us, truths buried under many lives of habitual materialistic thinking, waiting for us to make the call. In an echo of Plato's teaching that all learning is remembering, Blavatsky implies that mankind will one day restore knowledge of the universal mystery language.

Anyone bothering to read this description, and who cares to familiarize him or herself with the facts (via any additional research desired), will find that it would be quite impossible to produce ordinary, empirical physical EVIDENCE of either the Senzar language, or of course, examples of ancient Mystery Teachings found IN the Senzar script.

To disregard all claims for the (former) existence on our planet of one Universal religious teaching - based on this secret sacerdotal language known to all Initiates worldwide - is like asking for a branch of the proverbial Forbidden Tree from the Garden of Eden.

Because the believer cannot produce such a cutting, or any other evidence of a forbidden fruit, shall we conclude that Adam and Eve, like unicorns, are merely a product of our imagination ... and that this religious myth is - just a myth? Biblical literalism notwithstanding, are the prototypical Founders of Earth's Humanity simply a novel idea to help us make sense of the meaningless of our random & coincidental existence?

It comes as no surprise that today's materialistic skeptics and blind traditionalists arrive at the same conclusion on this subject. Lacking the objective proof that they demand (missing for reasons listed above, which ought to be obvious to anyone who was paying attention), the unimaginative cannot break themselves free of the well-worn grooves of accustomed thinking. Why turn to a new myth, when the standard continues to provide a perfectly good conundrum?

Plato Knew ... and now it is up to us - hopefully - to remember.

NAMASKAR

[Dondi]

Do you know what the lesson of the Tower of Babel was?

[AndrewX]

Originally Posted by Dondi

Do you know what the lesson of the Tower of Babel was?

Yes, Dondi ... quite well aware of the allegorical significance, as also of the two possibilities of interpretation - both as a caution, and as an indication.

Did you have one, or both of these in mind?

The Bible, btw, emphasizes only the cautionary meaning, the hubristic ... and hearkens back to the days of Atlantis, when the lefthand path (`black magic') became so prevalent.

Did you know that this was what the Biblical story ultimately refers to? Oh, for our dead-letter interpretations!

The other, more positive meaning (I do like to try to see the positive, even when others can't, or won't) ... is what I'm stressing in this thread. But of course, this is up to each and every one of us, and none of us makes the choice - for any other.

Will I be a one-wo/man show, or will I play well with others? Will I let pride & ambition rule, or will I work for the common Good, devotedly and with spiritual aspiration?

Seems we're still learning the basics. I know I sure am.

[Dondi]

Well, it seems to me that the biblical account is the more cautionary tale. Allegory or not, it details the fallacy of building one's own tower, which is inadequate anyway (in reaching the "heavens"). The point being is that they weren't depending on the Divine to accomplish this. Yes, God wants us to be One, but it has to be on His terms ("There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death. " - Proverbs 16:25). It is the very thing that got man in trouble before the flood (allegory or not). And now that within ten generations of Noah, they are back where they started.

Why we will never have unity is because that we will never agree on everything. There will always be surface tension.

Dead-letter interpretation? What do you mean by that exactly?

[AndrewX]

Originally Posted by Dondi

Well, it seems to me that the biblical account is the more cautionary tale. Allegory or not, it details the fallacy of building one's own tower, which is inadequate anyway (in reaching the "heavens"). The point being is that they weren't depending on the Divine to accomplish this. Yes, God wants us to be One, but it has to be on His terms ("There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death. " - Proverbs 16:25). It is the very thing that got man in trouble before the flood (allegory or not). And now that within ten generations of Noah, they are back where they started.

Why we will never have unity is because that we will never agree on everything. There will always be surface tension.

Dead-letter interpretation? What do you mean by that exactly?

Exactly!

I have been pondering the subject of another thread to start soon, dealing with the differences amongst groups. It is because of these differences, or rather, our failure to recognize and accept them for what they truly are, that we may not survive as a species long enough to accomplish God's Purpose for putting us here!

Specifically, we must make the most out of our differences, and eventually overcome them (where they prevent a needed and timely unification), in order to find out what God has planned for us next!

There is a balance that we are after, whether that be political or religious, social or economic, and if the scales tip too far in one direction only, it spells trouble. The Buddha recognized this, and called our (safest) path the Noble Middle Way.

In esotericism, there is a lefthand path, and a righthand path. The former is that of black magic, the latter, white magic. But only those who are truly ready can safely tread the righthand path ... and scale the mountainside straight-up! For the rest of us, we are far better off to take the slow but sure path, which is more circuitous but also more certain.

And for that, exoteric religion currently exists.

What I believe, is that we are reaching - fast reaching - a crucial time in Humanity's evolution. Although much of the above still pertains, the days of exoteric vs. esoteric are coming to an end. Not that this will ultimately be so, for the entire planet as a whole, once and for all. But I think the days of a secret cabal, with carefully guarded, esoteric secrets ... are increasingly a thing of yore.

Not that the Greater Mysteries are all destined to become revealed overnight. Not even by Humanity's endpoint of evolution upon this planet ... will we know all the Heavenly Mysteries, or lose our sense of wonder. But I do think the Greater Mysteries are gradually becoming taught among the Lesser. And even now, much that was formerly part of the Mystery Teachings, closely guarded and shared only with Initiates, can be found in bookstores, on the web, and discussed in study groups throughout the world.

For something to be truly secret, and "known only to the few," it cannot simultaneously be accessible via any fool with a computer or a library card.


But that is just it. God wants us to get to know [Him] ... and ourselves. God wants us to inquire about the world around us, get to know each other, participate in things like C-R discussions, as time permits, and LEARN about other faiths, other philosophies, other points of view. If we don't we not only stagnate, we run the risk of losing touch with the inner meaning that is present in every spiritual philosophy.

I think this is where Thomas and I have always agreed. An inner teaching exists, and that is what I'm getting at in this thread. At one point in Earth's history, I believe the Perennial Philosophy was something which could be put on paper, and communicated via language or symbol ... UP TO A POINT. I do not suggest, nor do I think this is what Theosophists are saying, that God has spit out the totality of the Divine Revelation, as it were, such that somewhere, somehow, it's been captured ... and just needs rediscovering, or unearthing.

What needs rediscovering, is our ability to question on our own, to seek for the Divine answers where they really exist: within us, within the hearts & minds of every person - in the Sacred, LIVING Space of the heart, where our lives meet with the Divine Life. {I'd like to hear people here TALK about this, if they feel comfortable - which we sometimes do, granted ... but a bit less argument, or quoting from x source ad infinitum, if possible! Oh I know, I'm guilty too! }

We most certainly have our differences, and people at C-R express these quite often to varying degrees, sometimes demonstrating that surface tension can even run fairly deep, emotionally, when it comes to our closely-held and cherished religious or philosophical beliefs. But as has just been aptly demonstrate, if I'm not mistaken, even when there are some extremely UNpopular occurrences in the world of religion (or dare I say, politics), it IS possible for people of many different viewpoints and belief systems to either get along, reasonably well, or at least work constructively TOWARD harmony and agreement.

This agreement does not have to become a blind parrotting of what each other holds as his or her expressed religious beliefs; but it does have to start with a willingness to sit down at the table together and speak civilly and cooperatively. Sadly, we sometimes get sidetracked trying to knock each other down - or at least, knock down the paper dolls that we see dancing about, each representing some point of view that we don't happen to agree with. But this is a stage that each person has to outgrow, and one which collective humanity must also outgrow if we're to really begin to make progress in Interfaith.

I think you did a fair job of describing the Biblical story of Babel, as I understand it. I had to look it up on Wiki to refresh my memory, and I think the introductory paragraph there gives an apt summary. Out of curiosity, since it is the subject of my thread (I posit that Plato knew precisely what the esoteric interpretation of Babel was, and is, regardless of his familiarity with the Hebraic scripture ... as this is beside the point), I wonder if you might take a look at a definition from the Theosophical glossary.

The positive meaning of Babel ... is what I think we need to focus on, if we're to get past the notion of to each his own, and move toward some form of agreement and shared understanding. You see? I have no problem agreeing that the Biblical lesson is one we must take to heart. Pride, after all, is one of the 7 Deadly Sins as recognized by Roman Catholicism ... and I believe it figures fairly prominently in every spiritual teaching.

On the esoteric path, is constitutes a deadly pitfall, and can wreck the lives of any spiritual seeker. One way to help us avoid this problem, is to remember, as you point out, that there IS a spiritually righteous way to progress upon the path ... of learning, growth, and Divine unfoldment. A Christian will know these as "God's Way," while equivalent terms can be found in other religions, even those (such as Buddhism) which may not approach the Divine or conceptualize God from the same perspective.


Thus, the glossary entry:

Babel babah (Hebrew) The inner meaning of the Tower of Babel, by which it was hoped that divinity might be reached or attained, is a house of initiation, a gate, portal, opening, or entrance to the divine. The physical tower was both the building set aside to house and protect the initiation chambers, together with the ceremonies that take place in them, and an architectural emblem to signify a raising up towards heaven. The tower may have either a divine or evil significance, either haughty pride and self-sufficiency or spiritual aspiration. Similar is the lightning-struck tower of the Tarot cards, and the Arabian Nights story of the man who built a palace completely except only for a roc's egg to hang in the dome, and when the egg is thus hung, the whole palace collapses. The work of the black magician, building from below upwards, is impermanent and, when it strikes the sky, is blasted. If such a tower and system be followed by adepts of the left-hand path for ultimate and foredestined confusion, it is one thing; but if the tower and its inner mysteries be in the charge of adepts of the right-hand path, it is another. The concentration of the narrator in the Bible concerning the Tower of Babel seems to have been entirely upon its aspect of left-hand magic.

The later Atlanteans were noted for their magic powers, wickedness, and defiance of the gods, and this tradition is preserved in many legends, such as the Biblical Tower of Babel, which derived from still older Chaldean scriptures. The legendary stories of wicked antediluvian giants warring against heaven are common in every mythology. The defeat of the giants, in some at least of these legends, results in the confusion of tongues -- the break-up and dispersal of a great racial division of mankind.

Babylon [from Assyrian "gate of the gods"] An ancient, celebrated city on the Euphrates said to have been founded by the Assyrian monarch Ninus or his legendary wife Semiramis. In ancient times one foci through which Brahmanical esoteric wisdom from India was diffused in Asia Minor, and its cosmogony forms a link between those teachings and the cosmogony of the Hebraic Bible.

I included the entry on Bablyon, too, because it came next ... and seemed quite releveant to the discussion.

Thanks for taking up the thread, btw ... it kind of came out of left field (in the wee hours of the morning), but it's good to know that it sparked something after all - and I may still come up with a post later on the purpose and place of differences.

cheers,

~Andrew

[Nick the Pilot]

Andrew,

Thanks for showing the connection between Babel and the destruction of the Atlantean Race.

[Bruce Michael]

I see that "The Story of Atlantis" - (1896) by the theosophist, William Scott-Elliott, "a merchant banker and amateur anthropologist" - is available online.

"The Story of Atlantis" describes how the Atlanteans had aircraft using a kind of jet propulsion i.e. they used powers other than the physical/mineral.

-Br.Bruce

[AndrewX]

Originally Posted by Bruce Michael

I see that "The Story of Atlantis" - (1896) by the theosophist, William Scott-Elliott, "a merchant banker and amateur anthropologist" - is available online.

"The Story of Atlantis" describes how the Atlanteans had aircraft using a kind of jet propulsion i.e. they used powers other than the physical/mineral.

-Br.Bruce

Perhaps the vril force of Edward Bulwer-Lytton? Etheric/zero-point energies?

[Bruce Michael]

Originally Posted by AndrewX

Perhaps the vril force of Edward Bulwer-Lytton? Etheric/zero-point energies?

Yes, as in Bo-vril.
Something that humanity will rediscover someday.

[Bruce Michael]

Dear All,
This has been dubbed the world's oldest building.
THE LAURA LEE SHOW - Japan Structures

It gives us a little idea of how grand the cities of Atlantis may have been.

-Br.Bruce

[ChristianMyst]

Interesting Post.