Pot and kettle anyone?

Operacast · 08-16-2008, 06:46 PM

The other day, President Bush said to Russia:

"Bullying and intimidation are not acceptable ways to conduct foreign policy in the 21st century."

BWA-HAH-HAH-HAH-HAH!

HAH!

HAH-HAH!!

HAH-HAH-HAH!!!

HAH-HAH-HAH-HAH!!!!

HAH-HAH-HAH-HAH-HAH!!!!!

HAH-HAH-HAH-HAH-HAH-HAH!!!!!!

HAH-HAH-HAH-HAH-HAH-HAH-HAH!!!!!!!

HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHH HHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-(

Operacast

17th Angel · 08-16-2008, 06:58 PM

Maybe he is starting to see how things should be? I also agree that bullying and intimidation shouldn't be tolerated... Of course if you take that statement and look back to my teenage years... That I guess you would also title as pot and kettle.... Who knows... Maybe he is (like we all one day will) Learning from his mistakes?

Vajradhara · 08-16-2008, 08:52 PM

do you disagree with the statement, Operacast?

metta,

~v

Pathless · 08-17-2008, 01:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex P

Maybe he is starting to see how things should be? I also agree that bullying and intimidation shouldn't be tolerated... Of course if you take that statement and look back to my teenage years... That I guess you would also title as pot and kettle.... Who knows... Maybe he is (like we all one day will) Learning from his mistakes?

If only. President Bush is simply applying selective morality. It's nothing new; he's been doing it for the past seven years. Hell, the country's been doing it for much longer than that, and Western Civilization as a whole has been doing it for centuries now. Change? Doubtful.

17th Angel · 08-17-2008, 01:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pathless

If only. President Bush is simply applying selective morality. It's nothing new; he's been doing it for the past seven years. Hell, the country's been doing it for much longer than that, and Western Civilization as a whole has been doing it for centuries now. Change? Doubtful.

Good to see you have confidence

Keep up that positive tempo brother!!! (By the way good to see you around these parts again lol.)

wil · 08-17-2008, 03:06 AM

Who attacked? Was it Georgia on the 7th or Russia on the 8th?

Vajradhara · 08-17-2008, 07:48 AM

Georgia has two provinces that want to break away and have Russia absorb them, Georgia moved troops into one of those provinces and the Russians responded the next day.

metta,

~v

wil · 08-18-2008, 01:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vajradhara

Georgia has two provinces that want to break away and have Russia absorb them, Georgia moved troops into one of those provinces and the Russians responded the next day.

metta,

~v

And so how exactly is Russia the bad guy?

Quahom1 · 08-18-2008, 05:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wil

And so how exactly is Russia the bad guy?

The Georgians' purpose was two fold. Keep land that was historically theirs, and show the world the true intent of the Russian republic (which is to reclaim the Baltic states and put a buffer between them and Europe)...

The Russians used this opportunity to show a smaller country they mean business, to show that the American training of the Georgians to be useless, to intimidate the Baltic nations and to show that the west would do nothing about the Russian's actions.

When American C-17 MAC planes began landing in Georgia at six a day, they backed off. Even though it is only humanitarian aid, the fact that the American military was not phased by the Russian occupation of parts of Georgia, and basically told the Russians, that they would assist their ally, whether the Russians liked it or not.

Now there is accelerated talks of bringing Georgia into NATO, and the Russians are frustrated because they underestimated the reaction of the West (once again).

This is a dangerous precedence that could destabilize the region, let alone Europe proper.

There is also the small matter of the Russian troops ignoring their president's call to cease fire and withdraw, which is a strong indication of the Russian military hierarchy being at odds with their "elected" government.

A Russian power struggle has been revealed...

This is going to get interesting, pretty soon.

Russia wants to be a world power again.

v/r

Q

Vajradhara · 08-18-2008, 07:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wil

And so how exactly is Russia the bad guy?

because they still like hair metal?

i dunno... i don't really operate with such ideas as "good" and "bad" guys anyways.

metta,

~v

wil · 08-18-2008, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quahom1

The Georgians' purpose was two fold. Keep land that was historically theirs, and show the world the true intent of the Russian republic (which is to reclaim the Baltic states and put a buffer between them and Europe)...

Thanx Q, I need some enlightenment on the history of this area...

My understanding is that it was always part of Russia...prior to the USSR, Stalin and other leaders came from there, it was the vacationland of Russia.

It appears to me that the US and our allies had our hands in creating this buffer, and the border cities/provinces/states preferred to stay with Russia much to our chagrine.

I'll bet there were a few US 'advisors' involved during the attack, (I mean the keeping of land and people that prefer to be part of Russia)

Vajradhara · 08-19-2008, 12:20 AM

Namaste will,

there are about 100 American military trainers in Georgia now and have been there since 2005. Germany, France and Israel also have trainers in the country.

metta,

~v

Quahom1 · 08-19-2008, 01:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vajradhara

Namaste will,

there are about 100 American military trainers in Georgia now and have been there since 2005. Germany, France and Israel also have trainers in the country.

metta,

~v

Western trainers (including Coast Guard, for their fledgling Boarder Patrol agency), have been in Georgia since before 1998. I know first hand.

v/r

Q

Quahom1 · 08-19-2008, 02:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wil

Thanx Q, I need some enlightenment on the history of this area...

My understanding is that it was always part of Russia...prior to the USSR, Stalin and other leaders came from there, it was the vacationland of Russia.

It appears to me that the US and our allies had our hands in creating this buffer, and the border cities/provinces/states preferred to stay with Russia much to our chagrine.

I'll bet there were a few US 'advisors' involved during the attack, (I mean the keeping of land and people that prefer to be part of Russia)

Georgia is a distinct people, with a distinct language (both written and spoken). The Georgians are part of the "steps" or Caucasus. They were absorbed into the Russian republic proper about two hundred years ago (not willingly).

The Georgians are traditionally "horsemen", and used to freedom within the mountains. Though finally subjugated by the Russian Czar they kept their heritage tight and underground. In 1993/1994 they broke clean away from the weakened Russian Republic and turned straight to the US and other Western nations for help, education, and a hope to become part of Europe.

The Georgian military, though small compared to Russia's, has the advantage of both Russian military training as well as Western military training (they can think like both, and anticipate the actions of both). The majority of the "casualties" inflicted during the conflict, were caused by the Russians, while they "rolled over" (similar to a German blitzkreig), while the Georgian military strategically backed out. Their job was done. The world saw the Russians and their intent.

Who won? That remains to be seen on the ground level, but in the mind of the world, the Russians came away with "egg" on their collective face. Had they stopped at the disputed cities, this would not be the case. However Russians have a tendency to be a bit over zealous, and not so subtle. This is a PR disaster for them, as they were trying to convey themselves as civil and enlightened, and a police force for the area. Instead, they are looked upon with dismay and distaste...something they can ill afford.

They are also very concerned that their "fear factor", did not sway western allies in coming to the aid of the Georgians, nor did it frighten the Georgians.

The Georgians for their part, took drastic measures to get the world's attention, however were brilliant in their Spartanic maneuver, of drawing the Russians into the "canyon" as it were, then screaming for the neighbors to come look at what was being done.

v/r

Q

Only Special To God · 08-19-2008, 02:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Georgia is a distinct people, with a distinct language (both written and spoken). The Georgians are part of the "steps" or Caucasus. They were absorbed into the Russian republic proper about two hundred years ago (not willingly).

The Georgians are traditionally "horsemen", and used to freedom within the mountains. Though finally subjugated by the Russian Czar they kept their heritage tight and underground. In 1993/1994 they broke clean away from the weakened Russian Republic and turned straight to the US and other Western nations for help, education, and a hope to become part of Europe.

The Georgian military, though small compared to Russia's, has the advantage of both Russian military training as well as Western military training (they can think like both, and anticipate the actions of both). The majority of the "casualties" inflicted during the conflict, were caused by the Russians, while they "rolled over" (similar to a German blitzkreig), while the Georgian military strategically backed out. Their job was done. The world saw the Russians and their intent.

Who won? That remains to be seen on the ground level, but in the mind of the world, the Russians came away with "egg" on their collective face. Had they stopped at the disputed cities, this would not be the case. However Russians have a tendency to be a bit over zealous, and not so subtle. This is a PR disaster for them, as they were trying to convey themselves as civil and enlightened, and a police force for the area. Instead, they are looked upon with dismay and distaste...something they can ill afford.

They are also very concerned that their "fear factor", did not sway western allies in coming to the aid of the Georgians, nor did it frighten the Georgians.

The Georgians for their part, took drastic measures to get the world's attention, however were brilliant in their Spartanic maneuver, of drawing the Russians into the "canyon" as it were, then screaming for the neighbors to come look at what was being done.

v/r

Q

Wow! I never watch the news because I find it so depressing, but Mr. Q, your synopsis of this new squirmish in Russia has made it sound quite interesting even for me! I will have to come here to get the lastest scoop on what is happening around the world.
Thank you,
Ian