Prayer oil on students' desks raises ire

BlaznFattyz · 02-24-2007, 02:56 AM

Even praying after hours in a Florida classroom is not without hazards and controversy.

In Florida, Christian staff members of a public school did just that – prayed for students facing assessment tests. But leaving behind a residue of anointing oil on desks has caused an uproar.

"We thought it was vandalism. It was greasy. It was oily," Chris Becker, a fourth-grade teacher who was resigning his position at Brooksville, Fla., Elementary to take another position, told the St. Petersburg Times.
"One of my colleagues said she was told by one of the secretaries it was prayer oil," he told the newspaper. "I was very offended by that because I'm not a Christian."...

Cont'd

Dor · 02-24-2007, 03:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlaznFattyz

Even praying after hours in a Florida classroom is not without hazards and controversy.

In Florida, Christian staff members of a public school did just that – prayed for students facing assessment tests. But leaving behind a residue of anointing oil on desks has caused an uproar.

"We thought it was vandalism. It was greasy. It was oily," Chris Becker, a fourth-grade teacher who was resigning his position at Brooksville, Fla., Elementary to take another position, told the St. Petersburg Times.
"One of my colleagues said she was told by one of the secretaries it was prayer oil," he told the newspaper. "I was very offended by that because I'm not a Christian."...

Cont'd

Get used to it now days...we were warned a long time ago.
Now days any verbal, bold and biblical christian is going to offend even the "christianity" of the world.

Faithfulservant · 02-24-2007, 03:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dor

Get used to it now days...we were warned a long time ago.
Now days any verbal, bold and biblical christian is going to offend even the "christianity" of the world.

That happens to me all the time.. Im not kidding.

BlaznFattyz · 02-24-2007, 03:51 AM

you think it is just a coincidence that jude which speaks of apostasy is the book right before revelations?

Quahom1 · 02-24-2007, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlaznFattyz

you think it is just a coincidence that jude which speaks of apostasy is the book right before revelations?

I don't think anything in the Bible is "coincidental", as that would imply chance. I also think the media is unwittingly doing us a favor by bringing these instances out into the light of day, hence giving warning to what is transpiring on a larger and more open scale.

In the United States however, the anti-Christ crowd is significantly minor enough that they can't out right persecute enmasse those who are called Christian, so they wittle away at the majoritie's rights of freedom of expression via legal means (and the pocket book). If on the other hand, the minority ever becomes the majority in this country, I opine all subtlness will disappear from their intent, and the goal of the ellimination of Christ from the populace mindset will become full scale, and abusively violent.

However, Christians have fore warning, and have a chance to act now to prevent a take over.

Similar to Benjamin Franklin's response to the question "what kind of government do we have", I submit the following to believers in Jesus:

"You have a faith of hope and love and eternal life...if you can keep it..."

v/r

Joshua

Faithfulservant · 02-24-2007, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dor

Get used to it now days...we were warned a long time ago.
Now days any verbal, bold and biblical christian is going to offend even the "christianity" of the world.

Silas, my brother, you know how this feels?

Quahom1 · 02-24-2007, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dor

Get used to it now days...we were warned a long time ago.
Now days any verbal, bold and biblical christian is going to offend even the "christianity" of the world.

Perhaps that is due to the apparentness of two camps of Christinity. Those who have the mindset of John the Baptist's preaching, and those who prefer the mindset of Jesus' teaching.

John targeted the proud and self-secure crowd (that needed a wake up call).

Jesus addressed the questioning, sorrowful and searching crowd (they were desperate and already hungry for hope fulfilled). The last thing they required was a reminder of their failings.

As in nature, when someone pours salt on and already open wound of another, the tendency is to fight back.

A good preacher "knows" which crowd he is dealing with, and knows when and how to adjust his message to reach that crowd. Billy Graham comes to mind, as does John Paul II.

Faithfulservant · 02-24-2007, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Perhaps that is due to the apparentness of two camps of Christinity. Those who have the mindset of John the Baptist's preaching, and those who prefer the mindset of Jesus' teaching.

John targeted the proud and self-secure crowd (that needed a wake up call).

Jesus addressed the questioning, sorrowful and searching crowd (they were desperate and already hungry for hope fulfilled). The last thing they required was a reminder of their failings.

As in nature, when someone pours salt on and already open wound of another, the tendency is to fight back.

Thats why we are called the "salt of the earth" Salt purifies.. heals and for sure stings those open gaping wounds.

Jesus also entered the temples and confronted the pharisees and sadducees..flipping tables over.. he also flat out told the rich guy to give up all his material items which he didnt do.

Quahom1 · 02-24-2007, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faithfulservant

Thats why we are called the "salt of the earth" Salt purifies.. heals and for sure stings those open gaping wounds.

Jesus also entered the temples and confronted the pharisees and sadducees..flipping tables over.. he also flat out told the rich guy to give up all his material items which he didnt do.

Salt of the earth refers to flavor and seasoning, not burning a wound. Salt with no flavor is worthless, to be cast to the ground and be trodden upon. Wounds according to Jesus are to be bound, not burned into insanity. And salt does not purify anything. It preserves if used correctly, and lays waste if overused. It can soften the harshest water, melt ice, but too much salt turns water dead, and causes ice to freeze harder and last longer as ice.

Indeed, Jesus did correct the abusers of his father's house who talked of being righteous, but then turned the temple into a den of theives, for the love of "money".

He told the rich guy to give away all he owned and come follow Jesus, but he turned away in sadness for he had much material wealth. Jesus did not chastize the rich man, but quietly turned to the crowd and explained the difficulty for the materially obsessed to enter heaven. Can't serve two masters (God and mamman).

People have enough troubles as it is, just trying to survive here, let alone being beat over the head with condemnation and eternal suffering.

As I stated, there is an apporpriate way of getting the message of Jesus to people, but the wise will discern who needs what message, and when, and "how" it should be presented.

For example, telling me I'm going to hell, would simply get one a look followed by a picture of my back walking away. On the other hand, if one were to tell me of the good news and promise of peace (within myself), now that would pique my curiosity.

Mother Thresa never condemned a soul, but she helped many come to the Lord.

Paul was a master at reading the crowd he was dealing with. Some got his staunch encouragement, some got an arbitor, while some got blasted for their stupid arrogance.

Stephen took on not the low in station or the common man, but the haute couture, and he knew he was going to pay for that, but those watching learned much, and Christianity broke away from Judeasim at that point.

Can't put new wine in an old wine skin, lest it burst. Can't put an unshrunk patch on old cloth lest it tear.

Do you know what boldness in Christ is? It is quietly stating with no reserve or hesitiation, that one is Christian, when asked in front of "friends" who are not. It is living one's life contrary to what everyone else is doing, because it is not God's way. It is openly talking about one's own experiences and no fear in answer or explaining to any who are even the least bit curious. It is waiting for a friend who is waking up from a bad hangover, and telling them if they continue, their ways will get the better of them. It is little things day to day, that people see and hear, that create a picture of the one as being a Christian, (some one they want in their corner when the stuff hits the fan). It is standing up for others, when they can't stand up for themselves.

There is nothing passive about Christianity, nor is there anything aggressive about it. It is quiet balance (peace and calm beyond understanding).

Christians are not emotional maniacs, or Crusaders out to crush those opposed to the Christian way. They are not the judges of people, as people. It's all about balance. Even the trinity concept is an example of perfect balance. All three legs of a three legged stool must be present in order for the stool to stand. Likewise a Christian must have moderate emotion, moderate mind and moderate (not overzealous) spirit.

Someone said "honey and vinegar". Honey is to be used on people, vinegar is to be used on the principalities and powers of the air that are not of God.

v/r

Joshua

Faithfulservant · 02-24-2007, 09:37 PM

I disagree..

You are denying that salt heals? From childhood I remember my mom telling me to gargle with saltwater for a sore throat.. or swimming in the atlantic ocean and all my little scratches would be gone..

Matthew 21:44 And whoever falls on this stone will be broken; but on whomever it falls, it will grind him to powder."

we know who this cheif cornerstone is..

Psalm 51:17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit, A broken and a contrite heart-- These, O God, You will not despise.

he wants us broken over and over again.. when we lose ourselves is when we come to Him for the water of life. That quenches our thirst... amazingly thats another thing salt does.. it makes one VERY thirsty.

Interstingly enough.. in this scripture Jesus is speaking of hell....

Mark 9: 43 If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life maimed, rather than having two hands, to go to hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched-- 44 where 'Their worm does not die, And the fire is not quenched.' 45 And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life lame, rather than having two feet, to be cast into hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched-- 46 where 'Their worm does not die, And the fire is not quenched.' 47 And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye, rather than having two eyes, to be cast into hell fire-- 48 where 'Their worm does not die, And the fire is not quenched.' 49 "For everyone will be seasoned with fire, and every sacrifice will be seasoned with salt. 50 Salt is good, but if the salt loses its flavor, how will you season it? Have salt in yourselves, and have peace with one another."

a thought... Fire burns and purifies as well.. interesting scripture isnt it..

I dont know what your problem is with Christians teaching about hell.. since it was spoken of over and over again. Jesus taught it and people that believe in the bible believe they are supposed to teach it as well..

But you and I have had our disagreements about hell.. havent we

BlaznFattyz · 02-24-2007, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Salt of the earth refers to flavor and seasoning...Salt with no flavor is worthless, to be cast to the ground and be trodden upon.

i agree that is what the saying means. we are to have purpose that is for the glory of god no matter how small. if we have nothing to offer we are like salt with no flavor which is rather useless. and if you add flavorless salt to flavorless salt to try and make it better, you just have more of nothing.

Quahom1 · 02-24-2007, 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faithfulservant

I disagree..

You are denying that salt heals? From childhood I remember my mom telling me to gargle with saltwater for a sore throat.. or swimming in the atlantic ocean and all my little scratches would be gone..

Matthew 21:44 And whoever falls on this stone will be broken; but on whomever it falls, it will grind him to powder."

we know who this cheif cornerstone is..

Psalm 51:17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit, A broken and a contrite heart-- These, O God, You will not despise.

he wants us broken over and over again.. when we lose ourselves is when we come to Him for the water of life. That quenches our thirst... amazingly thats another thing salt does.. it makes one VERY thirsty.

Interstingly enough.. in this scripture Jesus is speaking of hell....

Mark 9: 43 If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life maimed, rather than having two hands, to go to hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched-- 44 where 'Their worm does not die, And the fire is not quenched.' 45 And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life lame, rather than having two feet, to be cast into hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched-- 46 where 'Their worm does not die, And the fire is not quenched.' 47 And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye, rather than having two eyes, to be cast into hell fire-- 48 where 'Their worm does not die, And the fire is not quenched.' 49 "For everyone will be seasoned with fire, and every sacrifice will be seasoned with salt. 50 Salt is good, but if the salt loses its flavor, how will you season it? Have salt in yourselves, and have peace with one another."

a thought... Fire burns and purifies as well.. interesting scripture isnt it..

I dont know what your problem is with Christians teaching about hell.. since it was spoken of over and over again. Jesus taught it and people that believe in the bible believe they are supposed to teach it as well..

But you and I have had our disagreements about hell.. havent we

1. Sodium Chloride is a poison when taken above 5% in water solution. Sodium is like a bomb, and chloride...we we have just seen on TV what chlorine can do to people...
Mix the two together and one gets NACL (salt). It does not heal anything. What it does is prevent further infection from transpiring. That is all. What may have healed your skin would be the minerals in the sea water, and your own body's ability to recoupe. The salt simply staved off further infection. But left in a wound salt dries up the fluids and hinders healing, hence the horrible scarring of the skin. Indeed, it is widely known that too much salt raises own's blood pressure...

2. The stumbling stone you refer to is that of Jesus Himself...not the stones we put in front of people to make them stumble, every day.

3. No way. He want's us humble (knowing who and what we are), and willing to learn, not dashed to pieces. Big difference.

4. Again that is incorrect. An uncontrolled fire consumes everything, and nothing is left to recoupe. Unless an ash heap of carbon is what you consider "purified". A fire that is controlled to temper steel for example is a different matter all together. And what you posted has nothing to do with hell. It is the test of the faithful during life, to see if their faith is tempered and seasoned.

5. I do not dispute hell doctrine. What I do not accept is a Johnny come lately deciding that I am going to hell because I do not agree with his sentiments. I am seasoned as well, probably longer than you've been alive. I've seen hell on earth. I worry for the fate of my fellow man (concerned with). I've watched hard core soldiers and sailors find God (Jesus), and their character doesn't change, only their attitude. And no one told them they were going to hell, because frankly, they could have cared less at that point in their lives. What they needed was "GOOD News"...do you understand now?

You find it so easy to ally self with someone new, when some of us have been here for a long time...and backed you and yours up in a quiet but solid way...I have a problem with that as well...

Back to the original point. The teacher did nothing wrong. She did what she thought was best for her charges. Like holding the door open for a lady...or praying at a car wreck.

Were I a parent, I'd be honored that a teacher thought enough of my child to pray for them...even if it was to a "different" god. She didn't tell anyone what she was doing...some nosey ass decided to cause a ruccus. (nothing better to do I guess).

God, honors even the ignorant, who attempt to do His will...he makes wise men of fools, and fools of the wise.

I'm done.

pfw · 02-25-2007, 04:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlaznFattyz

Even praying after hours in a Florida classroom is not without hazards and controversy.

In Florida, Christian staff members of a public school did just that – prayed for students facing assessment tests. But leaving behind a residue of anointing oil on desks has caused an uproar.

"We thought it was vandalism. It was greasy. It was oily," Chris Becker, a fourth-grade teacher who was resigning his position at Brooksville, Fla., Elementary to take another position, told the St. Petersburg Times.
"One of my colleagues said she was told by one of the secretaries it was prayer oil," he told the newspaper. "I was very offended by that because I'm not a Christian."...

Cont'd

And if Muslim teachers had done this to a Christian student?

My personal opinion on this is that the teachers were trying to help but a more practical way to do that would have been to offer extra lessons/tutoring to the students. (and prayed for them in privacy).

Dor · 02-26-2007, 03:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pfw

And if Muslim teachers had done this to a Christian student?

My personal opinion on this is that the teachers were trying to help but a more practical way to do that would have been to offer extra lessons/tutoring to the students. (and prayed for them in privacy).

Read the article they did it after work on Friday after school was locked up for the weekend.

Quahom1 · 02-26-2007, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pfw

And if Muslim teachers had done this to a Christian student?

My personal opinion on this is that the teachers were trying to help but a more practical way to do that would have been to offer extra lessons/tutoring to the students. (and prayed for them in privacy).

When my parents were robbed and shot at, and when my neice was dying, the Muslim neigbhors were right there praying along with my parents and brother and his wife...I see nothing wrong with a prayerful man, especially when he is praying for others, or on the behalf of others...especially those not of his fold...that is what God wants us all to do. Right mindedness, allows God to work miracles and present revelations to mankind...

A Christian, knows when to accept help from others, and understand it is God at work...

v/r

Joshua