Praying

Bandit · 06-02-2005, 03:20 PM

Whenever someone has time. I read a book awhile back on Islam & I recall a part about Mohammed having a dream about prayer & God told him to tell the people to pray 50 times a day. So he kept climbing this ladder to ask God to reduce the number of times to pray per day & he got it down to five times a day. Along the way on the steps, he kept meeting the prophets & I think one of them told him to keep going back up to God to get the number reduced.
Reminds me of the time God asked Abraham to find 50 good men & I think he got the number down to five.
Is that true about the prayer?

Also I noticed Muslims pray on there knees all together at the same time, bowing very low. Is that the main way to pray in Islam when in a group?

PluckyAli · 06-02-2005, 07:45 PM

That's an interesting story of miraj,and i think it was prophet jesus who asked Muhammad to go again and further request to reduce the no of prayers.i think jesus was right(jk).
And yes,It's true about the prayer.I have never heard about the abraham part of the story.

Bowing down at the same time is a part of unity of muslims.It shows we all are equal,no one is greater,no one is lower.A servant and a king should theoretically pray at the same mosque and a servant can go in the top rows,when a king is in the bottom rows.

farhan · 06-02-2005, 09:33 PM

HI,

Quote:

Whenever someone has time. I read a book awhile back on Islam & I recall a part about Mohammed having a dream about prayer & God told him to tell the people to pray 50 times a day. So he kept climbing this ladder to ask God to reduce the number of times to pray per day & he got it down to five times a day. Along the way on the steps, he kept meeting the prophets & I think one of them told him to keep going back up to God to get the number reduced.

It was actually during Miraaj/Israa/acsension of Muhammad to the heavens , it isnt considered to be a dream by muslims . He went beyond the limits of most intimate angels . The limit is called Sidratul muntaha . There he talked to God . & God told him to tell his people to pray 500 times a day . He came back & there met Moses . Moses said it will be difficult for your people to do it , so ask Allah to lessen it . THis time he went to Allah & came back with 50 . Moses again said the samething . He again went to Allah , & came back with 5 prayers per day . With a reward that is equal to the orignal 500 .

Quote:

Also I noticed Muslims pray on there knees all together at the same time, bowing very low. Is that the main way to pray in Islam when in a group?

Actually Salaat ( prayer ) is a mixture of all usual bodily movements . The reason behind this is to make muslims accustomed to focussing their mind towards Allah , in all times/all movements . The movements include standing , sitting , bowing ( at hip joint level ) & bowing low on the ground .

Regards

PluckyAli · 06-02-2005, 10:19 PM

I should correct myself,it was prophet moses.Why can't we edit post after half an hour?

Bandit · 06-03-2005, 06:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by farhan

HI,

It was actually during Miraaj/Israa/acsension of Muhammad to the heavens , it isnt considered to be a dream by muslims . He went beyond the limits of most intimate angels . The limit is called Sidratul muntaha . There he talked to God . & God told him to tell his people to pray 500 times a day . He came back & there met Moses . Moses said it will be difficult for your people to do it , so ask Allah to lessen it . THis time he went to Allah & came back with 50 . Moses again said the samething . He again went to Allah , & came back with 5 prayers per day . With a reward that is equal to the orignal 500 .

Actually Salaat ( prayer ) is a mixture of all usual bodily movements . The reason behind this is to make muslims accustomed to focussing their mind towards Allah , in all times/all movements . The movements include standing , sitting , bowing ( at hip joint level ) & bowing low on the ground .

Regards

Thank You Farhan. I remember now, everything you say is exactly what the book was saying but I think he saw other prophets too, & even Adam on different levels, but Moses was the one who told him to get it reduced to 5. We have sit, stand, kneel & bow in our church too. Sometimes everyone in unison & other times people just do it however they feel.

I am just curious, is Mohammed the only one who can reach this level of Sidratul muntaha ? Similiar to being caught away in spirit, I think.

Bandit · 06-03-2005, 06:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PluckyAli

That's an interesting story of miraj,and i think it was prophet jesus who asked Muhammad to go again and further request to reduce the no of prayers.i think jesus was right(jk).
And yes,It's true about the prayer.I have never heard about the abraham part of the story.

Bowing down at the same time is a part of unity of muslims.It shows we all are equal,no one is greater,no one is lower.A servant and a king should theoretically pray at the same mosque and a servant can go in the top rows,when a king is in the bottom rows.

Thank You for the reply PluckyAli
I think that is very neat that it shows all are equal & a king can be in the last row & the servant can be in the top row when they pray. So I guess miraj is a good thing that 5 prayers is much better than 500 a day, with the same blessing.

farhan · 06-03-2005, 09:27 AM

The Miraaj of Prophet Muhammad was not only spiritual , but physical . That is he went there with his body . Then he went very near to God & actually met him at a place called Qaaq-e-Qausain ( two bow lengths or even nearer ) . So that place is definitely not reachable by humans .

About Siaratul Muntaha , I havent heard anything said about that by muslim scholars . Sufis say that Sidratul Muntaha is the last limit of Angels , but not humans . Humans can go beyond it , though only spiritually , not with their bodies .

Bandit · 06-03-2005, 02:30 PM

Very interesting to me Farhan. The Miraj with Muhammed. Kind of reminds me a little of the transfiguration with Moses, Elijah & Jesus. I don't understand that realm, but I believe just about anything is possible & nothing is impossible, when communing with Allah.

thipps · 06-05-2005, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by farhan

HI,
It was actually during Miraaj/Israa/acsension of Muhammad to the heavens , it isnt considered to be a dream by muslims . He went beyond the limits of most intimate angels . The limit is called Sidratul muntaha . There he talked to God . & God told him to tell his people to pray 500 times a day . He came back & there met Moses . Moses said it will be difficult for your people to do it , so ask Allah to lessen it . THis time he went to Allah & came back with 50 . Moses again said the samething . He again went to Allah , & came back with 5 prayers per day . With a reward that is equal to the orignal 500.

Regards

Salaam,
Allaah originally enjoined 50 prayers when the Prophet Mohammad (pbuh)ascended to the heavens, not 500. There are many other authentic hadith that say the same. And it was Gabriel (peace be upon him) who took him up. He met some of the Prophets of God on each heaven he visited as he ascended towards 'the utmost boundary', including Adam, Abraham, Moses and Jesus (peace be upon them all). Yes it was Prophet Moses (pbuh) who advised him to go back and ask for the reduction of these prayers. So that this happened many times and the prayers were reduced each time until they reached 5. After this, Allah said, 'These are five prayers and they are all (equal to) fifty (in reward) for My Word does not change.'
[See: Sahih Bukhari, Vol. 1, Book 8 (Salaat), Hadith# 345]
Finally, the Prophet (pbuh) did not see Allah. 'Aisha, the mother of the believers, said: He who presumed that Muhammad (may peace be upon him) saw his Lord (with his ocular vision) fabricated the greatest lie against Allah.
[See: Sahih Muslim, Book 1 (Faith), Hadith #337]
Furthermore, Shiekh Munajjid also explained this matter by saying, among other things, that
"Even the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) on the night of the Mi’raaj (ascent into heaven) did not see his Lord. He was asked ‘Did you see your Lord?’ He said, “I saw Light.” According to another report: “Light – how could I see Him?” i.e., between me and Him there was a great veil of light. According to a hadeeth in al-Saheeh, it is narrated that Allaah is veiled in Light. ... "
Hope this clears things up.
And Allah knows best.

Staffy · 07-01-2005, 12:47 PM

I have never heard this story before as i don't pay much attention to Hadith.........Allah knows all and knows best i do not belive in any way that any of our beloved prophets(pbut) would or 'Bargained' With the almighty for he is not bound by matter, time or space and his power is truely infinate.....we pray 5 times a day(at least) for god wished it so...........We dont pray during sunset because god wished it so.....God knows exactly what is good for us and exactly how we run. How do i know this? because Allah told me so through the Quran.......Allahu Akbar Allahu Akbar

Bismillari Ramani Rahim
Qul: Huallahu Ahad
Allahu Sahad
Lam Yalid wa lam yulad
Wa lam yakul lahu kufuwan ahad

Do not underestimate your creator for he is the creator of all things and he knows all.............Staffy

thipps · 07-02-2005, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Staffy

I have never heard this story before as i don't pay much attention to Hadith.........Allah knows all and knows best i do not belive in any way that any of our beloved prophets(pbut) would or 'Bargained'

salaam,
You should pay attention to hadith. You can't do without it. The Prophet(pbuh) wasnt 'bargaining'. I have no idea how you got that impression. Bargaining requires give and take. Where does it say in the hadith that Prophet Mohammad(pbuh) gave something to Allaah in return? Allaah is our Lord... He doesnt need us. It is only us who need Him. He(pbuh) requested Allah... he(pbuh) asked Allaah to reduce the prayer as advised by the Prophet Moses(pbuh).
Thats what i understand from reading the hadith.
Hope this helped.
And Allah knows best.

muslima · 07-26-2005, 06:39 PM

Why do u need a set of pattern and rigid timing to pray God why cant a person pray when ever he acknowledges Gods presence.One can think abt God more than 5 times why cant he pray when ever he wishes??
I would also like to knwo besides Quran ..is it mention in bible anywhere abt praying at specific time or such pattern.

kittycat · 07-27-2005, 08:25 PM

I think that the more that pray together in Islam,as a large group, is considered the best...............the more the merrier

Amica · 08-02-2005, 09:18 PM

Peace/Salaam!

I have heard this story, but it seems that the details are provided much by the Hadith. Like Staffy, I do not pay much attention to the Hadith since it is complied and created by humans--at least 100 yrs after Prophet Muhammad's death, so I would advise to read in the Holy Qur'an about the Miraj. Qur'an explains everything, not the hadith.

Peace.

thipps · 08-03-2005, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by muslima

Why do u need a set of pattern and rigid timing to pray God why cant a person pray when ever he acknowledges Gods presence.One can think abt God more than 5 times why cant he pray when ever he wishes??
I would also like to knwo besides Quran ..is it mention in bible anywhere abt praying at specific time or such pattern.

Salam,
The timings that you are referring to are the timings of the Obligatory prayers. You can pray naafil (extra) prayers if you like. There are some times in the 24-hour day when you're not supposed to pray but, otherwise, pray as much as you like.