presence

[mee]

Concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father. 37 For just as the days of Noah were, so the presence of the Son of man will be. 38 For as they were in those days before the flood, eating and drinking, men marrying and women being given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark; 39 and they took no note until the flood came and swept them all away, so the presence of the Son of man will be. 40 Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken along and the other be abandoned; 41 two women will be grinding at the hand mill: one will be taken along and the other be abandoned. 42 Keep on the watch, therefore, because YOU do not know on what day YOUR Lord is coming. matthew 24;36-42

Christ’s

Presence (Parousia)

Mt 24:3—Gr., το σημειον της σης παρουσίας

The Greek word from which "presence" is translated is pa·rou·si´a, formed from pa·ra´ (alongside) and ou·si´a (being; derived from ei·mi´, meaning "be"). Hence, pa·rou·si´a means, literally, "being alongside," that is, a "presence." It is used 24 times in the Christian Greek Scriptures, frequently with regard to the presence of Christ in connection with his Messianic Kingdom.—Mt 24:3

Many translations vary their renderings of this word. While translating pa·rou·si´a as "presence" in some texts, they more frequently render it as "coming." This has been the basis for the expression "second coming" or "second advent" (adventus ["advent" or "coming"] being the Latin Vulgate translation of pa·rou·si´a at Mt 24:3) with regard to Christ Jesus. While Jesus’ presence of necessity implies his arrival at the place where he is present, the translation of pa·rou·si´a by "coming" places all the emphasis on the arrival and obscures the subsequent presence that follows the arrival. Though allowing for both "arrival" and "presence" as translations of pa·rou·si´a, lexicographers generally acknowledge that the presence of the person is the principal idea conveyed by the word............ we are now in the presence since 1914 ,when Jesus was made king of Gods heavenly kingdom goverment, do we recognize the signs of Jesus presence?

[mee]

Jesus invisible presence, has already begun
an especially significant feature of Jesus’ presence is being fulfilled.
This good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come." (Matthew 24:14) this does not mean the end of the planet, it means the end of manmade goverments , that is why it is GOODNEWS, we humans were not created to rule ourselves
The foretold Kingdom-preaching work and other features of the sign of Jesus’ presence are being fulfilled right now.
The Bible links "the great day of Jehovah" with the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ .we are living in thrilling times.
To survive the great day of Jehovah, we must stay awake spiritually and stand firm for true worship. (1 Corinthians 16:13)
As recorded at Matthew 24:3, the apostles asked: "Tell us, When will these things be, and what will be the sign of your presence and of the conclusion of the system of things?" In his answer, Jesus gave the disciples a sign that would be visible proof of his invisible presence in Kingdom power. The complete sign included unprecedented wars, widespread food shortages, devastating earthquakes, pestilences, and an increase in crime and fear. Christ’s presence would be a time of global turmoil and anxiety. Human governments and world leaders would be unable to cope successfully with a collapsing system.—Matthew 24:7, 12; Luke 21:11. yes its all happening , the start of the last days was when Jesus was made King of Gods heavenly kingdom goverment in 1914 .do we recognize Jesus presence in kingdom power ?.i know i do

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by mee

Jesus invisible presence, has already begun
an especially significant feature of Jesus’ presence is being fulfilled.
This good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come." (Matthew 24:14) this does not mean the end of the planet, it means the end of manmade goverments , that is why it is GOODNEWS, we humans were not created to rule ourselves

No, this is not true (in my opinion, based on the first five books of the Old Testament). We were originally designed to rule the earth, and all that inhabited it...and we still have stewardship over this planet (physically), however the powers and principalities of the air are in battle over "us", as I write. We were also supposed to have fellowship with God on an intimate level, not be ruled by God. (when I say that, I mean not under God's thumb). We're supposed to be Christ's bride, not the subjects of a King. By attempting to take away that, would be attempting to take away the very concept of Christianity.

my thoughts

v/r

Q

[truthseeker]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

We were originally designed to rule the earth, and all that inhabited it...and we still have stewardship over this planet (physically), however the powers and principalities of the air are in battle over "us", as I write. We were also supposed to have fellowship with God on an intimate level, not be ruled by God. (when I say that, I mean not under God's thumb). We're supposed to be Christ's bride, not the subjects of a King. By attempting to take away that, would be attempting to take away the very concept of Christianity.

I agree.

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by truthseeker

I agree.

Thank you. A another voice in unison or harmony is a blessed event indeed...

[mee]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

No, this is not true (in my opinion, based on the first five books of the Old Testament). We were originally designed to rule the earth, and all that inhabited it...and we still have stewardship over this planet (physically), however the powers and principalities of the air are in battle over "us", as I write. We were also supposed to have fellowship with God on an intimate level, not be ruled by God. (when I say that, I mean not under God's thumb). We're supposed to be Christ's bride, not the subjects of a King. By attempting to take away that, would be attempting to take away the very concept of Christianity.

my thoughts

v/r

Q

yes we were given the job
of cultivating the earth and looking after it in line with Gods ways , but if you remember we choose to listen to someone else rather than God, but no worries , Gods original purpose will be fullfilled
And he will certainly render judgment among many peoples, and set matters straight respecting mighty nations far away. And they will have to beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning shears. They will not lift up sword, nation against nation, neither will they learn war anymore. 4 And they will actually sit, each one under his vine and under his fig tree, and there will be no one making [them] tremble; for the very mouth of Jehovah of armies has spoken [it]. micah 4;3-4 and how will this peace come about,?
(Isaiah 54:13) And all your sons will be persons taught by Jehovah, and the peace of your sons will be abundant. no wonder that Jehovah said to listen to his son Jesus christ .......... Jesus himself was taught by Jehovah

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by mee

yes we were given the job
of cultivating the earth and looking after it in line with Gods ways , but if you remember we choose to listen to someone else rather than God, but no worries , Gods original purpose will be fullfilled
And he will certainly render judgment among many peoples, and set matters straight respecting mighty nations far away. And they will have to beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning shears. They will not lift up sword, nation against nation, neither will they learn war anymore. 4 And they will actually sit, each one under his vine and under his fig tree, and there will be no one making [them] tremble; for the very mouth of Jehovah of armies has spoken [it]. micah 4;3-4 and how will this peace come about,?
(Isaiah 54:13) And all your sons will be persons taught by Jehovah, and the peace of your sons will be abundant. no wonder that Jehovah said to listen to his son Jesus christ .......... Jesus himself was taught by Jehovah

Ah, Mee, but there is a huge difference in being given "Dominion" of the earth and "cultivating" the earth. The former indicates quite specifically that man was given the earth to RULE over, wherein the latter could be said of a share cropper.

Now, how Man and Satan can rule over the same property at the same time, I don't know, I'll have to research this. See I don't read where it says the Devil has rule over earth, only Man. I do know there is a battle going on over Man, and the devil has access to going to and fro on this earth devouring what he "can", but devouring and ruling over are two different things.

v/r

Q

[mee]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Ah, Mee, but there is a huge difference in being given "Dominion" of the earth and "cultivating" the earth. The former indicates quite specifically that man was given the earth to RULE over, wherein the latter could be said of a share cropper.

Now, how Man and Satan can rule over the same property at the same time, I don't know, I'll have to research this. See I don't read where it says the Devil has rule over earth, only Man. I do know there is a battle going on over Man, and the devil has access to going to and fro on this earth devouring what he "can", but devouring and ruling over are two different things.

v/r

Q

We know we originate with God, but the whole world is lying in the [power of the] wicked one. 1 John 5;19
(John 12:31) Now there is a judging of this world; now the ruler of this world will be cast out.
(John 16:11) then concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world has been judged
2 Corinthians 4:4) among whom the god of this system of things has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, that the illumination of the glorious good news about the Christ, who is the image of God, might not shine through.....yes i would say that the devil is the ruler of the world at this point in time ,but not for much longer
For his part, the God who gives peace will crush Satan under YOUR feet shortly. May the undeserved kindness of our Lord Jesus be with YOU. romans 16;20

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by mee

We know we originate with God, but the whole world is lying in the [power of the] wicked one. 1 John 5;19
(John 12:31) Now there is a judging of this world; now the ruler of this world will be cast out.
(John 16:11) then concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world has been judged
2 Corinthians 4:4) among whom the god of this system of things has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, that the illumination of the glorious good news about the Christ, who is the image of God, might not shine through.....yes i would say that the devil is the ruler of the world at this point in time ,but not for much longer
For his part, the God who gives peace will crush Satan under YOUR feet shortly. May the undeserved kindness of our Lord Jesus be with YOU. romans 16;20

Your statement and point of Biblical interest do not answer my question. In short it appears to be a "beating around the bush". Originate with God, and having Dominion over the earth and all that dwell within it are two entirely different issues. God rules heaven, and Man rules earth, whereing the devil rules nothing, just destroys what he can't have...

show me different.

v/r

Q

[path_of_one]

That's how I understand the scriptures as well, Q. I also think when we believe that Satan rules the earth, we give him power. We allow him to devour more than he otherwise could. If we take our rightful place, below God but as stewards of the earth, then Satan has no kingdom. Satan only has in his power what we give him- it is our choice and, with Christ, we are powerful enough to overcome him. If Satan seems to be in charge of the world, it is because we have chosen him (and evil) over God (and goodness). In theory, if each of us followed Christ, Satan's power would wane all over the world. In practice, many people consistently use their free will to go against God's will, and so Satan has plenty of subjects- but only because people choose it to be so.

[truthseeker]

Yes, Yes, Yes!

I won't say much more than what Quahom and Path are saying except that I agree completely to the heart of it. Satan's goal is not to rule over the earth but to divert us in our spiritual elevation. Seeing that the earth was for us, Satan could use that in his lies to entice us, but his goal is our souls.

[lunamoth]

I'm so glad you started the cheerleading, truthseeker. Great posts Q and path. I think you've nailed it.

peace,
lunamoth

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by mee

We know we originate with God, but the whole world is lying in the [power of the] wicked one. 1 John 5;19
(John 12:31) Now there is a judging of this world; now the ruler of this world will be cast out.
(John 16:11) then concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world has been judged
2 Corinthians 4:4) among whom the god of this system of things has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, that the illumination of the glorious good news about the Christ, who is the image of God, might not shine through.....yes i would say that the devil is the ruler of the world at this point in time ,but not for much longer
For his part, the God who gives peace will crush Satan under YOUR feet shortly. May the undeserved kindness of our Lord Jesus be with YOU. romans 16;20

I have had time to reflect upon the passages you present, and the conclusion I have come to is that you are correct...to a point.

The term "world" and the term "Earth" do not mean the same thing.

Biblically speaking, the term "world" describes the reality of life and the living, wherein the term "Earth" describes a physical object.

To say that the "world" is under the rule of Satan (that is the plane of existence we are part of), could be considered accurate. To say the "Earth" is under the rule of Satan (that is the physical object), is incorrect. My reasons?

1. God gave Dominion of the Earth and all that dwells within to man, and never took it back.

2. Satan was already fallen from Heaven and roamed the Earth before man was created. After the creation of man is when God gave man dominion.

3. Jesus constantly warns us to be of the "world" but not in it. He never told man to be of the "Earth" but not on it.

In short Mee, it appears quite clear that God does not want man to become part of the life that Satan rules over, but He certainly wants man to maintain stewardship of and rule over the "Earth".

So you are correct in your statement...provisionally.

my thoughts

v/r

Q

[mee]

Originally Posted by truthseeker

Yes, Yes, Yes!

I won't say much more than what Quahom and Path are saying except that I agree completely to the heart of it. Satan's goal is not to rule over the earth but to divert us in our spiritual elevation. Seeing that the earth was for us, Satan could use that in his lies to entice us, but his goal is our souls.

and did he not succeed in that ,right back in the garden of eden ? he lead them away from truth, God said one thing ,satan said another (the opposite )the issue going on is the issue of universal sovreignty, who has the right to rule , God or satan . at the momment satan is the ruler of this world (1John 5;19)God has allowed him to rule . and yes he is after our lives, God offers everlasting life, satan offers death , he is already the ruler of the world, but not for long.
He who carries on sin originates with the Devil, because the Devil has been sinning from [the] beginning.
Or, "from when he began."
For this purpose the Son of God was made manifest, namely, to break up the works of the Devil. 1 john 3;8 ...................when he began his rebellion against God back in the garden of eden , he had the power over us because adam and eve listened to him instead of God

[mee]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

I have had time to reflect upon the passages you present, and the conclusion I have come to is that you are correct...to a point.

The term "world" and the term "Earth" do not mean the same thing.

Biblically speaking, the term "world" describes the reality of life and the living, wherein the term "Earth" describes a physical object.

To say that the "world" is under the rule of Satan (that is the plane of existence we are part of), could be considered accurate. To say the "Earth" is under the rule of Satan (that is the physical object), is incorrect. My reasons?

1. God gave Dominion of the Earth and all that dwells within to man, and never took it back.

2. Satan was already fallen from Heaven and roamed the Earth before man was created. After the creation of man is when God gave man dominion.

3. Jesus constantly warns us to be of the "world" but not in it. He never told man to be of the "Earth" but not on it.

In short Mee, it appears quite clear that God does not want man to become part of the life that Satan rules over, but He certainly wants man to maintain stewardship of and rule over the "Earth".

So you are correct in your statement...provisionally.

my thoughts

v/r

Q

i agree that it is Gods purpose for man to live on the earth and have stewardship over it , but it all goes back to adam and eve rejecting Gods way of ruling. but Gods purpose has not changed it will be fullfilled in the end , as to his way of doing things, not satans way , which at the momment is the case ,but not for long. yes you are right to say that Jesus said that his followers would be no part of the world , the reason he said this is because satan does things opposite to how God wants things done. we cannot get off this planet we wereborn on it, but we have to listen to Jesus and what he said . even if the world in general say the opposite. Jesus followers are no part of this system of things , even though we are in the system of things . we should be no part of the world and its ways. we should listen to Jesus