Prove that the Bible is full of contradictions-- I double dare you!

[gluadys]

Originally Posted by I, Brian

In other words: works over faith.

No, quite the opposite in fact. There is nothing wrong with trying to live the right way or doing good works. In fact, if one is not doing such works it is a clear sign one is not on the right way.

But the motive is important.

The atheist who lives the right way can often be closer to God than a believer, precisely because her commitment to the right way is not based on belief in God or rewards for good works, whereas doing good works in order to gain brownie points with God is a constant temptation for a believer.

What the believer must strive for is to follow the right way in the same way the atheist does----simply because it is right and with no thought of reward. That is the sort of good work that is the fruit and evidence of a living faith, a saving faith.

But doing good works with an eye to gaining God's favour is an indication of bad motive and egotistic desires, not of faith. That is what Paul was condemning in the works-oriented keeping of the law by the Pharisees.

[I, Brian]

Ah, now that is an interesting perspective on the issue - not looked at it that way.

[bananabrain]

And that's why we have the Ishmaelites and Midianites morphing back and forth in the text of Genesis today.

nobody thinks to read rashi on verse 28, of course:

"This is a different caravan, and the verse lets you know that Joseph was sold many times." The sons of Jacob pulled 'Joseph from the pit,' and sold him to the Ishmaelites, and the Ishmaelites to the Midianites, and the Midianites sold him to Egypt."

i dare say it's even a bit simpler than coming up with a hypothesis of lots of different authors! occam, where's yer razor?

In my own opinion, an "atheist" who is dedicated to living by the "Right Way" is much "nearer to God" than an avid religionist

judaism agrees! that's why the noachide laws exist.

b'shalom

bananabrain

[StrangeQuark]

Really now--so many people have had their hands on the Bible it's very hard to believe there *wouldn't* be problems with the text (let alone interpretation). Everyone who already mentioned this has my vote: this does not at all lessen its value as a spiritual guide.

I know I don't really have much to add, here, but sometimes I can't help myself.

Other than that: I have assimilated so much information from so many differnt perspectives in this thread. I never dreamed there could be any place, virtual or otherwise, where people of different beliefs could come together and discuss their ideas, etc. without trying to rip each other apart. The only other place that came close was college.

[Avinash]

Originally Posted by Marsh

The issue: Does the Bible contradict itself?
I'm not one to impose rules on others, but for the purpose of this discussion I would like to propose that people post one of two kinds of responses: either a supported argument proving a contradiction, or a rebuttal of a stated argument.

The so-called Christian Bible cannot "do" anything because it is merely a collection of writings from two rather distinct religions. There are inconsistencies within the teachings of all religions and more importantly there are inconsistencies between the teachings of different religions.

The only reason for this is that the authors or redactors of those religious writings were in many cases not writing from practical experience. So religious writings always have contradictions but the theoretical account of the practical science of spirituality (how to transcend the I-feeling or I-consciousness) can have no contradictions.

I have found no contradictions within the original teachings of Jesus but plenty of inconsistencies between the words of the (many) different authors and redactors. These authors and redactors had quite a different agenda from that of Jesus and this explains the inconsistencies. I could illustrate this with one or two of the sayings of Jesus and show what the different redactors did to these sayings.

[Karehndiujo Mohmid]

Originally Posted by Marsh

The issue: Does the Bible contradict itself?

If Joseph is not Jesus' biological father, then how does Jesus possibly retain the lineage of Judah through him?

(It is not, so much, a case of the Bible contradicting itself but, rather, the Self contradicting the Bible.)

[Mus Zibii]

The bible is full Full FULL of contradictions. I'd say virtually every religious text is. But apologetics makes it impossible 'prove' such things. Under the right set of rules, I could prove the moon is made of green cheese.

The sad thing is, without the concept of inerrancy or divine influence, most religions would fall apart as philosophies or 'paths'. I won't name any names, though.

[Avinash]

Originally Posted by Mus Zibii

The sad thing is, without the concept of inerrancy or divine influence, most religions would fall apart as philosophies or 'paths'.

Something to look forward to.....

[I, Brian]

Not without something to replace it...

[Avinash]

Originally Posted by I, Brian

Not without something to replace it...

Originally Posted by Muz Zibii

'paths'.

[Karehndiujo Mohmid]

Originally Posted by Mus Zibii

Under the right set of rules, I could prove the moon is made of green cheese.

Blue cheese.

It is made of blue cheese.

[I, Brian]

OMG - the moon is gorgonzola - as prophesised by the Atlanteans!

[Mus Zibii]

Originally Posted by Karehndiujo Mohmid

Blue cheese.

It is made of blue cheese.

Infidel! Have you not read the Book of the Wisconsinites, where it is written 'thou shall say not that the moon hath been constructed by the almighty Theodore from blue cheese. Nay, hath it not been made clear that Ted favored green cheese, from the great three teated mammal of no name.' Woe unto the fool that...

Okay, that's not funny anymore.

[I, Brian]

It all was.

[SamsSauce]

Try proving that any religion isn't full of contradictions ... As for the Bible, if you think it isn't, why are there so many different variations of the Christian faith, reading from the same book? Does one actually NEED a definitive text? What is more important, is what the text contains, and even more importantly, being able to differenciate between what is, and what is not important. As for me, I believe God exists, but due to the way religions have been twisted by their followers, as a way of justify battling with another religion, I am not willing to back any specific faith until they are all willing to agree to disagree, not disparage and poach each others followers.