Punishment for non believers?

[path_of_one]

Here, here, Luna. Great post...

[China Cat Sunflower]

Yeah, what Path said! That was a keeper Ms. Moth. Straight from the heart.

But look, what do we do with all the other texts that are going so far as to list the kinds of people headed for hell? You know: those with "unnatural" affections, liars (ouch, that's gonna be a lot of teeth gnashers there), etc.? How about rich people trying to fit their modern day camels through the eye of that needle? And then there's the Kingdom, and Heaven, and the Kingdom of Heaven...is heaven a shire of the Kingdom of Heaven, or vice-versa? And Hell, Gehenna, Sheoul...is that like Gaza, the West Bank, and Hebron?

I like the idea of Christ as the Logos. That's kinda my entry point. Now, you know that the Logos is...well, pretty much the same thing as the Tao, right? I mean the Way...and all. The Logos is the Word: the expressed concept. "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Light. That's the Logos!

I don't think, though, that the Logos can be a person except anthropomorphically, so I see Jesus as a character in a story about the nature of the Logos. Jesus who played the Christ, I guess. That doesn't diminish the importance of the Logos IMO.

I like metaphysics. I like to think of metaphysics as being the philosophical side of physics--quantum and classical. There's a lot of foo-foo in metaphysics, so I look out for that. I like the universality of metaphysics and metaphysical cosmology. I find that a lot of those old dudes like Pythagoras and Lao Tzu were talking about a lot of cool stuff...like the Logos.

Chris

[lunamoth]

Originally Posted by China Cat Sunflower

Yeah, what Path said! That was a keeper Ms. Moth. Straight from the heart.

But look, what do we do with all the other texts that are going so far as to list the kinds of people headed for hell? You know: those with "unnatural" affections, liars (ouch, that's gonna be a lot of teeth gnashers there), etc.? How about rich people trying to fit their modern day camels through the eye of that needle? And then there's the Kingdom, and Heaven, and the Kingdom of Heaven...is heaven a shire of the Kingdom of Heaven, or vice-versa? And Hell, Gehenna, Sheoul...is that like Gaza, the West Bank, and Hebron?

I like the idea of Christ as the Logos. That's kinda my entry point. Now, you know that the Logos is...well, pretty much the same thing as the Tao, right? I mean the Way...and all. The Logos is the Word: the expressed concept. "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Light. That's the Logos!

I don't think, though, that the Logos can be a person except anthropomorphically, so I see Jesus as a character in a story about the nature of the Logos. Jesus who played the Christ, I guess. That doesn't diminish the importance of the Logos IMO.

I like metaphysics. I like to think of metaphysics as being the philosophical side of physics--quantum and classical. There's a lot of foo-foo in metaphysics, so I look out for that. I like the universality of metaphysics and metaphysical cosmology. I find that a lot of those old dudes like Pythagoras and Lao Tzu were talking about a lot of cool stuff...like the Logos.

Chris

Good post China Cat, and I like your take on the Tao/Way/Logos. Something to ponder. But, I'm too fried tonight to respond in any intelligent manner (excuses excuses). Catch ya later! luna

[lunamoth]

Originally Posted by China Cat Sunflower

But look, what do we do with all the other texts that are going so far as to list the kinds of people headed for hell? You know: those with "unnatural" affections, liars (ouch, that's gonna be a lot of teeth gnashers there), etc.?

Well, I think those show a very human Paul trying to put a community together.

How about rich people trying to fit their modern day camels through the eye of that needle? And then there's the Kingdom, and Heaven, and the Kingdom of Heaven...is heaven a shire of the Kingdom of Heaven, or vice-versa? And Hell, Gehenna, Sheoul...is that like Gaza, the West Bank, and Hebron?

Oh, I think I could get into a thread on the Kingdom of God, one of my very favorite topics.

I like the idea of Christ as the Logos. That's kinda my entry point. Now, you know that the Logos is...well, pretty much the same thing as the Tao, right? I mean the Way...and all. The Logos is the Word: the expressed concept. "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Light. That's the Logos!

Love.

I don't think, though, that the Logos can be a person except anthropomorphically, so I see Jesus as a character in a story about the nature of the Logos. Jesus who played the Christ, I guess. That doesn't diminish the importance of the Logos IMO.

Well, we're human and we're always going to be limited to anthropomorphological understandings of God. That doesn't mean that God is limited by us. I disagree with you, the Logos was a Person in Christ. What could be a more perfect expression of the Logos than Love personified for us to see, touch, hear? We may not understand God but He understands us, and in His mercy knows how to reach us.

I like metaphysics. I like to think of metaphysics as being the philosophical side of physics--quantum and classical. There's a lot of foo-foo in metaphysics, so I look out for that. I like the universality of metaphysics and metaphysical cosmology. I find that a lot of those old dudes like Pythagoras and Lao Tzu were talking about a lot of cool stuff...like the Logos.

Chris

I don't know much about metaphyscis, or physics. I am strictly an amature, but I am interested and I like to read.

Nite,
lunamoth

[wil]

Originally Posted by lunamoth

Well, we're human and we're always going to be limited to anthropomorphological understandings of God.

Say it isn't so...we can't always be anthropopathetic! The chapel ceiling and the vestiges of Greek and Roman Gods cannot continue to cause us such strife. Even our medical institutions are starting to accept energetic healing techniques, acupuncture...techniques that rely on meridians and energy fields and life forces that they cannot yet see or define. Why must we be confined by making G-d in our image?

[Penguin]

I'm afraid this is all too much for me and I haven't got a clue what you are all talking about. We seem to have wondered off on a tangient from my original question for the thread Many thanks.

[BlaznFattyz]

there will be judgement and perhaps punishment for the non-believers. however; that blanket statement is too general without further explanation. imo, ignorance is one thing; such as amazonian tribes that have never heard the good news, but blaspheming the holy spirit and communicating with dark spirits, and being evil and hateful would probably be something worthy of punishment, when you knew that god existed but ignored it and did not repent but scoffed. the bible does state some will be cast into the lake of fire. ultimately, only god knows what a man's last thoughts are and what happens at judgement.

[lunamoth]

Originally Posted by Penguin

I'm afraid this is all too much for me and I haven't got a clue what you are all talking about. We seem to have wondered off on a tangient from my original question for the thread Many thanks.

Hi Penguin, Apologies if it seems that we've taken your thread too far off course. Your question is good, but like so many good questions it leads to much more than 'yes' or 'no' and 'what temperature will the fire be' as an answer.

peace, and best wishes in your search for answers,
lunamoth

[lunamoth]

Originally Posted by wil

Say it isn't so...we can't always be anthropopathetic! The chapel ceiling and the vestiges of Greek and Roman Gods cannot continue to cause us such strife. Even our medical institutions are starting to accept energetic healing techniques, acupuncture...techniques that rely on meridians and energy fields and life forces that they cannot yet see or define. Why must we be confined by making G-d in our image?

*Consider this post a tangent to the OP*

Hi Wil, at the risk of taking this thread off course, I just want to say that I did not mean we are limited to imagining God as the beard in the sky. That is not my concept of God at all. What I mean is we say "God is Love, and God is More than Love," and "God is Being, and God is More than Being." We can list all the attributes we believe flow from God to us, and acknowledge that we also recognize that God is More than we can conceive. So, words fail and our understanding will always fall short, IMO.

As for healings, the source of all healing comes from God. Frankly, I am skeptical of 'energy healings,' etc. I do know that many ailments can be healed by a soul being touched and loved, esp when sufficient touch and love was previously missing.

*we now return you to your regularly scheduled thread on punishment after death*

cheers,
luna

[Bandit]

Originally Posted by Penguin

I'm afraid this is all too much for me and I haven't got a clue what you are all talking about. We seem to have wondered off on a tangient from my original question for the thread Many thanks.

hey Penguin

you dont have to believe & listen to what all these people are saying. i feel your original post answers itself & is very much so on track.

boards like this become very confusing for people, because all people are doing is giving their opinions & a lot of people here do not even believe in the Bible.

if you stick with Jesus the good shephard & the Bible for instruction you will do just fine.

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by Bandit

hey Penguin

you dont have to believe & listen to what all these people are saying. i feel your original post answers itself & is very much so on track.

boards like this become very confusing for people, because all people are doing is giving their opinions & a lot of people here do not even believe in the Bible.

if you stick with Jesus the good shephard & the Bible for instruction you will do just fine.

Very true. Opinions are like...well everyone has one. However, not even I would claim that others do not "believe" in the Bible. That would be too presumptuous of me. (make me think I was God or something, reading others' hearts).

No, the amazing thing is that Christ seems to be very important to all who post here (VERY IMPORTANT), to them personally, else they wouldn't bother posting to something that didn't matter to them.

Stick with Jesus, and the Bible, but don't ever be afraid to ask (and listen), for answers that might make you think. You never have to agree. But there is nothing wrong with thinking...that is how we learn.

my 2c

v/r

Q

[China Cat Sunflower]

Hey, everyone is good for something, even if it's just that they're a bad example! I never ask anyone to agree with what I say. I'd actually prefer that they didn't, otherwise there's nothing to learn.

1c (it was the least I could do)
Chris

[Bandit]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Very true. Opinions are like...well everyone has one. However, not even I would claim that others do not "believe" in the Bible. That would be too presumptuous of me. (make me think I was God or something, reading others' hearts).


my 2c

v/r

Q

not presumptuous at all. many people here say they do not believe in the bible.
interfaith = many people who do not believe in the bible.

no. i do not think i am God, that has nothing to do with it.

Stick with Jesus, and the Bible, but don't ever be afraid to ask (and listen), for answers that might make you think. You never have to agree. But there is nothing wrong with thinking...that is how we learn.

[Thomas]

Hey Penguin -

Look at it from the Parable of the Prodigal Son -

The son takes his birthright, goes to town, pours the lot down his throat, ends up sleeping in the gutter.

Do we punish alcoholics? No, we say "I'm here, if you need me." But we know that an alcoholic can never recover until he admits he is an alcoholic. Often the alcoholic has to fall as low as he can go, before he faces the truth of his situation.

You can't save an alcoholic. He doesn't need you, he needs booze.

Alcoholics save themselves. Once they start that process, all you can do is do what you always said, "I'm here, if you need me."

That's all Christianity is ...

Thomas

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by China Cat Sunflower

Hey, everyone is good for something, even if it's just that they're a bad example! I never ask anyone to agree with what I say. I'd actually prefer that they didn't, otherwise there's nothing to learn.

1c (it was the least I could do)
Chris

Inflation made it worth a buck...