Queen of Heaven - Page 4

mee · 03-18-2007, 06:27 PM

QUEEN

OF THE HEAVENS

The title of a goddess worshiped by apostate Israelites in the days of Jeremiah.—Jer 44:17-19.

LeoSalinas22 · 03-19-2007, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas

the church that doesn't worship the queen of heaven,
Nor do Catholics. Get your facts right.

the church that doesn't worship a crufifix made by the hands of man,
Nor do Catholics. Get your facts right.

the church that doesn't worship a mere man that calls himself the pope,
Nor do Catholics. Get your facts right.

the true church is a body of people and not a building or a "organization".
What is a 'body of people' if not an organisation. A disorganisation? An unorganisation? Get your facts right.

the true church is not of this world but of God.
Then it doesn't exists at all, does it? And the 'Church of God' was founded here, by Christ, on the Faith of Peter. Read your Scripture. Get your facts right.

they don't support any governments of this world like the pope did with the nazis.
Again, get your facts right ...

Put it this way: I could say, with a much greater degree of 'accuracy', that the US Government supported the Nazis. But that would be to present a one-sided view of what happened, and distort the truth of the affair, but nevertheless, the US poured significant amounts of cash and material support into National Socialism to bolster a crumbling state.

they have found the narrow path that no one else doesn't seem to care to look for.
Again ... who ...

i say this in the most humble and truethful way.
It doesn't read like it. Quite the reverse, in fact. I suggest you examine what you've beed fed as 'truth' as most of it appears to be propaganda.

Thomas

thomas, i have seen with mine own eyes, that people worship her and look for answers to her, instead of our Father in heaven, we should always look to Him for all of our answers. i have seen these things with mine own eyes. don't believe everthing you read, man. you have to let our Father reveal and witness these things for yourself. i am blessed to have these things revealed to me right in front of me. you can't tell me that you haven't seen people worshipping the virgin mary statues or praying to them or the crucifix. i have seen it. people look to the pope for answers instead of looking for our Father in heaven. i have seen this with mine own eyes. when you look for answers to someone or something or you give praise and glory to that someone or something that is called worshipping. remember that the Lord our God, is a jealous God. if man organized a "group" or church then it is not of God's will but of man's. it has to be done by His will and His will alone. the Christ Himself says he is not of this world. if He is not of this world, then neither am i because i will follow Him and not the pope. i am pretty sure that His church is not of this world either. do you know what Christ meant by Him not being of this world? you shouldn't concern yourself with the politics or things of this world. instead, concern yourself with the Creator of heaven and earth. above all, i love you, i don't care what anyone thinks. lets exalt His Name together into all of eternity. Amen

LeoSalinas22 · 03-19-2007, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mee

i have found it

it brings me joy to know that. now only if you were to answer the private message i sent. hope to hear from you soon.

Thomas · 03-19-2007, 06:20 PM

thomas, i have seen with mine own eyes...
Then you have seen people in error. I am talking about doctrine.

I have known many Catholics with the most profound devotion to the Blessed Virgin, and I have known many with the most profound devotion to other saints, and I have known of miracles performed in the name of those saints, and I have my own devotion to favoured saints ...

... but these are family friends ... we do not worship them, we ask their intercession on our behalf with our Heavenly Father ... they have gone before us, after all ...

don't believe everthing you read, man.
And don't believe everything you see.

you have to let our Father reveal and witness these things for yourself.
And if he chooses to reveal them through his saints? They worked in His name for us in their lives and by their lives ... and as they now live in Him, is it not that they might continue to work in His name?

i am blessed to have these things revealed to me right in front of me. you can't tell me that you haven't seen people worshipping the virgin mary statues or praying to them or the crucifix. i have seen it.
I can tell you that I have seen people praying for the Blessed Virgin to pray for us on our behalf ... as she interceded witrh her Son at Cana.

As for praying to the crucifix, do you think they pray to a piece of wood, or do they pray to the person depicted upon that piece of wood. Does Christ crucified mean nothing to you, then?

people look to the pope for answers instead of looking for our Father in heaven.
The Popse is the shepherd of the Shepherd:

John 21:15-17
"Jesus saith to Simon Peter, Simon, [son] of Jonas, lovest thou me more than these? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my lambs ... He saith to him again the second time, Simon, [son] of Jonas, lovest thou me? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my sheep ... He saith unto him the third time, Simon, [son] of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep."

if man organized a "group" or church then it is not of God's will but of man's. it has to be done by His will and His will alone.
As it was. Founded by Christ, on Peter, as told in the Gospels:
Matthew 16:18
"And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."
That is a church built on Peter, who was very much of this world.

Matthew 18:15-17
"Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone ... And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican."

If Christ says He founded a Church on Peter, and here He tells his followers that the Church is the final arbiter of dispute, then I am faithful to the church that He founded, and not to any teachings of men that say otherwise.

If I am not to listen to any man ... why should I listen to you?

And how would you or I have come to know of Him, had we not listened?

Thomas

LeoSalinas22 · 03-19-2007, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas

thomas, i have seen with mine own eyes...
Then you have seen people in error. I am talking about doctrine.

I have known many Catholics with the most profound devotion to the Blessed Virgin, and I have known many with the most profound devotion to other saints, and I have known of miracles performed in the name of those saints, and I have my own devotion to favoured saints ...

... but these are family friends ... we do not worship them, we ask their intercession on our behalf with our Heavenly Father ... they have gone before us, after all ...

don't believe everthing you read, man.
And don't believe everything you see.

you have to let our Father reveal and witness these things for yourself.
And if he chooses to reveal them through his saints? They worked in His name for us in their lives and by their lives ... and as they now live in Him, is it not that they might continue to work in His name?

i am blessed to have these things revealed to me right in front of me. you can't tell me that you haven't seen people worshipping the virgin mary statues or praying to them or the crucifix. i have seen it.
I can tell you that I have seen people praying for the Blessed Virgin to pray for us on our behalf ... as she interceded witrh her Son at Cana.

As for praying to the crucifix, do you think they pray to a piece of wood, or do they pray to the person depicted upon that piece of wood. Does Christ crucified mean nothing to you, then?

people look to the pope for answers instead of looking for our Father in heaven.
The Popse is the shepherd of the Shepherd:

John 21:15-17
"Jesus saith to Simon Peter, Simon, [son] of Jonas, lovest thou me more than these? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my lambs ... He saith to him again the second time, Simon, [son] of Jonas, lovest thou me? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my sheep ... He saith unto him the third time, Simon, [son] of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep."

if man organized a "group" or church then it is not of God's will but of man's. it has to be done by His will and His will alone.
As it was. Founded by Christ, on Peter, as told in the Gospels:
Matthew 16:18
"And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."
That is a church built on Peter, who was very much of this world.

Matthew 18:15-17
"Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone ... And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican."

If Christ says He founded a Church on Peter, and here He tells his followers that the Church is the final arbiter of dispute, then I am faithful to the church that He founded, and not to any teachings of men that say otherwise.

If I am not to listen to any man ... why should I listen to you?

And how would you or I have come to know of Him, had we not listened?

Thomas

you say that it is okay to pray to graven images even when our Father says not to? even if they are of His Christ? His sacrifice means everthing to this worthless sinner, namely me. no where in His instruction and discipline does He appoint man to name His saints for Him and on top of that, then ask them to intercede for us. we pray and seek His face only thru His Christ. no where in His Infinite Wisdom does he say to appoint a pope as our shephard. only our Father is our Shephard.
Proverbs 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. Proverbs 3:6 In all thy ways acknowledge Him, and He shall direct thy paths. acknowledge Him, not the pope or man appointed saints. look, i didn't know you were catholic and i never said for you to listen or trust me. i am a sinner, just like you and everyone else on this planet. as i have mentioned before, i love Him and only Him. more than my own family and friends. just like Lot or Abraham. everything i have was given to me by Him and for Him. for His glory. no one elses. i don't know about you, but i listened to my heart, to His Voice. not to man.

Thomas · 03-19-2007, 11:16 PM

Hi LeoSalinas22 –

no where in His instruction and discipline does He appoint man to name His saints for Him...
Check your Scripture:
Psalm 106:16 "They envied Moses also in the camp, [and] Aaron the saint of the LORD."

Daniel 8:13 "Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain [saint] which spake ... "

Philippians 4:21 "Salute every saint in Christ Jesus... "

The Hebrew is 'qadosh' which is translated as 'holy one, one set apart, saint.'

... and on top of that, then ask them to intercede for us.

Well, then we disagree, for I think He does just that, and more –

Matthew 16:19
"And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

And again –

Matthew 18:18-19
"Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven."

I think His love knows no bounds, and whatever those who love Him ask of Him, it is theirs ...

After all, did not Abraham intercede with God, for the righteous in Sodom and Gomorrah? (Genesis 18) I think there is a long history of intercession.

Thomas

Faithfulservant · 03-20-2007, 12:55 AM

Quote:

I have known many Catholics with the most profound devotion to the Blessed Virgin, and I have known many with the most profound devotion to other saints, and I have known of miracles performed in the name of those saints, and I have my own devotion to favoured saints ...

I would like to share these.

John 4:48 Then Jesus said to him, "Unless you people see signs and wonders, you will by no means believe."

Acts 4:30 by stretching out Your hand to heal, and that signs and wonders may be done through the name of Your holy Servant Jesus."

Mrk9:39 But Jesus said, "Do not forbid him, for no one who works a miracle in My name can soon afterward speak evil of Me.

2The2:9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders,

I have never heard of people performing miracles in the name of someone other than Christ Jesus and I have to be honest that I got that wrong feeling that Ive learned to trust. I looked everywhere for biblical examples of miracles being performed in the name of someone other than Jesus and I could not find anything. As I was looking for examples the scriptures I posted jumped out at me. Now.. I am not saying that anyone Thomas saw performing miracles was of the enemy.. what I am saying is that we cant use that as an argument for validation.. satan can certainly perform seemingly miraculous deeds and I believe he has done so.

THe first scripture I posted was something I strongly believe.. do we really need miracles to validate our faith? Blessed is the one who believes without seeing.

All I can do is look to the scriptures to base my beliefs on and I check everything against the scriptures.. if there happens to be one saying we can do miracles in the name of someone else could you please post it.. thanks.

Faithfulservant · 03-20-2007, 01:19 AM

I found this sometime back and this is a bit where I based my impression in regards to the obsession with Mary by the Marian followers. The apparitions of Mary start 9 mins into this hour and half video. Its called Messaged from Heaven.

Messages from Heaven - Google Video

Quahom1 · 03-20-2007, 05:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faithfulservant

I found this sometime back and this is a bit where I based my impression in regards to the obsession with Mary by the Marian followers. The apparitions of Mary start 9 mins into this hour and half video. Its called Messaged from Heaven.

Messages from Heaven - Google Video

It also leads in with cheesy shots of "alien" film droppings(cuts) taken from some hollywood movie editor's floor. At least they didn't show Mary's face baked into some hot crossed buns.

Quahom1 · 03-20-2007, 05:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faithfulservant

I would like to share these.

John 4:48 Then Jesus said to him, "Unless you people see signs and wonders, you will by no means believe."

Acts 4:30 by stretching out Your hand to heal, and that signs and wonders may be done through the name of Your holy Servant Jesus."

Mrk9:39 But Jesus said, "Do not forbid him, for no one who works a miracle in My name can soon afterward speak evil of Me.

2The2:9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders,

I have never heard of people performing miracles in the name of someone other than Christ Jesus and I have to be honest that I got that wrong feeling that Ive learned to trust. I looked everywhere for biblical examples of miracles being performed in the name of someone other than Jesus and I could not find anything. As I was looking for examples the scriptures I posted jumped out at me. Now.. I am not saying that anyone Thomas saw performing miracles was of the enemy.. what I am saying is that we cant use that as an argument for validation.. satan can certainly perform seemingly miraculous deeds and I believe he has done so.

THe first scripture I posted was something I strongly believe.. do we really need miracles to validate our faith? Blessed is the one who believes without seeing.

All I can do is look to the scriptures to base my beliefs on and I check everything against the scriptures.. if there happens to be one saying we can do miracles in the name of someone else could you please post it.. thanks.

There are two distinct camps of thought here. Jesus tells us that miracles done in His name are genuine (that is from Him). Revelation tells us miracles will be done by other than Jesus, but they will not be done in His name. It is also said that there will be those to try to do miracles but will fail, because they do not prepare, or are false.

My concern is the linking of miracles to the "Queen of Heaven" concept as originated by the author of this thread. I think we are starting to drift abit (all of us).

v/r

Joshua

inhumility · 03-20-2007, 06:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dor

In 1954, Pope Pius XII officially declared Mary the Queen of Heaven.Here is the full text of his encyclical AD CAELI REGINAM.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dor

Now my question is why would he do that when we are told who was considered the queen of heaven in scripture?
Read Jeremiah 7 and 44 if you do not know.

Hi
Just a little insertion, please; the matters of heaven are or would be, decided by GodAllahYHWH. Does it become necessary upon God, to acting upon what Pope has decided for Him? I think my Christian friends won’t mind it.
Love to JesusYeshuaIssa and the Christians!
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi – a peaceful faith in Islam

Quahom1 · 03-20-2007, 06:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by inhumility

Hi
Just a little insertion, please; the matters of heaven are or would be, decided by GodAllahYHWH. Does it become necessary upon God, to acting upon what Pope has decided for Him? I think my Christian friends won’t mind it.
Love to JesusYeshuaIssa and the Christians!
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi – a peaceful faith in Islam

No, the Pope is the "vicar" for God. That is to say the pope acts as representitive of, but in recognition to what God has decided for he, the Pope to do. The pope does not tell God what to do. And any pope who has ever thought otherwise as met a rather ignoble end.

v/r

Joshua

p.s. did you know that Emperor/Pope Constantine refused to wear royal purple after he was baptised a Christian, despite the fact that he was Emperor of Rome? He died wearing his baptismal robes of simple white linen. He also had his whole family baptised and "prayed" they would accept the Christian faith. He never forced them.

Faithfulservant · 03-20-2007, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quahom1

There are two distinct camps of thought here. Jesus tells us that miracles done in His name are genuine (that is from Him). Revelation tells us miracles will be done by other than Jesus, but they will not be done in His name. It is also said that there will be those to try to do miracles but will fail, because they do not prepare, or are false.

My concern is the linking of miracles to the "Queen of Heaven" concept as originated by the author of this thread. I think we are starting to drift abit (all of us).

v/r

Joshua

That was not my intention Josh which is why I posted it in two seperate posts. My first post was in response to something Thomas said.. My second post was in line with the topic of this thread.

Quahom1 · 03-20-2007, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faithfulservant

That was not my intention Josh which is why I posted it in two seperate posts. My first post was in response to something Thomas said.. My second post was in line with the topic of this thread.

Understood. My comment was at large...

v/r

Joshua

LeoSalinas22 · 03-20-2007, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas

Hi LeoSalinas22 –

no where in His instruction and discipline does He appoint man to name His saints for Him...
Check your Scripture:
Psalm 106:16 "They envied Moses also in the camp, [and] Aaron the saint of the LORD."

Daniel 8:13 "Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain [saint] which spake ... "

Philippians 4:21 "Salute every saint in Christ Jesus... "

The Hebrew is 'qadosh' which is translated as 'holy one, one set apart, saint.'

... and on top of that, then ask them to intercede for us.

Well, then we disagree, for I think He does just that, and more –

Matthew 16:19
"And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

And again –

Matthew 18:18-19
"Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven."

I think His love knows no bounds, and whatever those who love Him ask of Him, it is theirs ...

After all, did not Abraham intercede with God, for the righteous in Sodom and Gomorrah? (Genesis 18) I think there is a long history of intercession.

Thomas

seek His face, thomas, and meditate on His law, day and night. inscribe His Word on the tablet of your heart. seek Him only for His Name is Jealous. see you on another thread.