Question - Page 5

Dor · 12-13-2006, 02:51 PM

1 Timothy 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

God wants everyone saved he calls us all. Men do not all listen and choose him.

Snoopy · 12-13-2006, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silas

Can a good Muslim, or good Jew or good athesist, or good Catholic, or good Rasta, or good person ever please God without Jesus?

Hi,

Could a good person ever have pleased God before Jesus lived?

s.

Silas · 12-13-2006, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dor

1 Timothy 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

God wants everyone saved he calls us all. Men do not all listen and choose him.

God does want everyone to be saved. I agree! See the Two Wills in God here:
But since no one chooses Him, He saves some. That much is evident from scripture. I could never find one scripture that says plainly that man has ever used his free will to choose God first. If you find it, please let me see it as Im considering my understading to be in a flux. As for God calling everyone, that too isnt scripture, but what we "free willers" precieve of God. Acts 13:48 and Mark 4:10-13, among others, come to mind.

Silas · 12-13-2006, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snoopy

Hi,

Could a good person ever have pleased God before Jesus lived?

s.

YES! Before the fall Adam and Eve pleased God. After the Fall, there werent any good people - only those saved by sovereign grace. Just like now.

wil · 12-13-2006, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silas

YES! Before the fall Adam and Eve pleased God. After the Fall, there werent any good people - only those saved by sovereign grace. Just like now.

Namaste Silas...So Adam and Eve were good, pleased G-d before the fall. So does that mean to you this is not metaphor, that G-d created Adam from the earth and Eve from his rib, that this is all accurate historical fact and not allegory?

Snoopy · 12-13-2006, 04:33 PM

Hi,

I probably wasn't talking about the same thing. I meant any "good" people that lived prior to Jesus (or other known prophets) back through time until the appearance of modern humans around 100,000 years ago.

s.

Silas · 12-13-2006, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wil

Namaste Silas...So Adam and Eve were good, pleased G-d before the fall. So does that mean to you this is not metaphor, that G-d created Adam from the earth and Eve from his rib, that this is all accurate historical fact and not allegory?

Yeah, I believe the rib story was literal. I have no reason to believe it was an allegory. God is famous for using fooling things to shame the wise and prudent.

Silas · 12-13-2006, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snoopy

Hi,

I probably wasn't talking about the same thing. I meant any "good" people that lived prior to Jesus (or other known prophets) back through time until the appearance of modern humans around 100,000 years ago.

s.

In our relativistic understanding of the word good, there have been countless good people. Yet, Jesus makes it clear..."There is no one good, except God." Also, the Bible delcares, "there is none righteous, no not one." The problem facing mankind is not that they have sinned, but that they've done nothing but sin before God. All our good and moral deeds, apart from Christ, have been counted as dirty rags before God.

Snoopy · 12-13-2006, 05:52 PM

Hi,

Kind of impossible this! The original question on this thread I took to mean asking for responses from non-Christians (from the horse's mouth as it were) but as it is set in the Christianity forum, it's difficult to see how the question could be discussed without breaching CoC guidelines. Maybe it wasn't meant for non-Christians.

s.

InLove · 12-14-2006, 08:54 AM

Perhaps it was the phrasing in the original post that was confusing. Maybe it sent up a red flag. I think it did for me--and I am still not sure that I understand the intent there. Maybe, (Snoopy's post made me think), it would have been easier to just say "good person". However...

I think that of course no Christian (Catholic or otherwise), Rasta, or Muslim could have pleased God before Jesus lived because none of these religions had yet been instituted.

Atheists? I will have to leave that up to God. Perhaps--but it would only be by God's grace.

Jews? Yes. Through the faith that comes by the grace of God.

None are good, but only through faith that comes by the grace of God, we may be saved.

I think that is the point Silas is trying to make. Am I right, Silas?

Or is there more?

InPeace,
InLove

InLove · 12-14-2006, 09:37 AM

I need to clarify something in my last post. I wrote:

Quote:

Originally Posted by InLove

I think that of course no Christian (Catholic or otherwise), Rasta, or Muslim could have pleased God before Jesus lived because none of these religions had yet been instituted.

I should have written:

..."before Christ lived as the man Jesus here on earth..."

Just wanted to clear that up.

InPeace,
InLove

cyberpi · 12-15-2006, 04:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dor

Actually there is quite a bit about Abraham's faith in the Bible.

Good point... there sure is. Since Abraham had Faith, then what does Faith mean? Does Faith mean a belief or a religion? Did those who believed in wooden figurines not have a belief and a religion? Abraham pre-dated the bible, Judaism, and Christianity... yet he had Faith.

I suspect if all bibles and religions were removed from the face of the planet, that a person can still have Faith. Abraham did.

Quahom1 · 12-15-2006, 06:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyberpi

Good point... there sure is. Since Abraham had Faith, then what does Faith mean? Does Faith mean a belief or a religion? Did those who believed in wooden figurines not have a belief and a religion? Abraham pre-dated the bible, Judaism, and Christianity... yet he had Faith.

I suspect if all bibles and religions were removed from the face of the planet, that a person can still have Faith. Abraham did.

Faith is the belief in things as yet unseen, the hope for things that have yet to be.

Abraham did not predate anything. Noah's laws were in place since the beginning (of Noah). Abraham had faith in a God that came and made self known to him personally. Wooden statues do not garner the same type of "faith".

If all scripture and religion was removed from the face of the planet, man would create both, again. It is in our nature to look to our origins and look to the future.

Where did I come from?
What is my purpose?
Why am I here?
Who made me?
When did it all begin?
How do I continue?

BlaznFattyz · 12-15-2006, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quahom1

...Abraham had faith in a God that came and made self known to him personally...

Quahom1 · 12-16-2006, 07:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snoopy

Hi,

Could a good person ever have pleased God before Jesus lived?

s.

Indeed. Enoch walked with God 342 years and was taken up whole into heaven. Again, Elijah walked with God and was taken up whole into heaven. Moses pissed God off, but promised Him eternal life. Abraham the same. David pleased God more than he angered Him.

We must assume that Lazarus was a good sport about having to die twice, and Jesus dearly loved him. He also loved John and I suspect Andrew, as well as Simon Peter.

These are only the recorded notices of God's love for certain folk, and certainly not all of them. Ruth, Job, Hosea come to mind...

v/r

Joshua