Rationale for the Reason

[Sacredstar]

Dear J
duplicate posting

[Sacredstar]

Dear Juantoo33

Originally Posted by juantoo3

Now, I also understand how difficult it can be to put your heart into something like what you have written here, only to have it challenged. But that is how we grow in our understanding. It doesn't help your cause to call rationalists "irrational." I must keep in mind that this is your rationale for your reason.

Well I do not have a problem with being challenged when it comes from pure intent. Irrational was a term used by rationalists on this forum, so using a play on words which I enjoy to do, I was attempting and being inspired to respond with the rationalists own use of the word irrational! Irrational is never a word that I wouild normally use, accuse or even dream of thinking because in my domain everything is perfect because all is meant to be! Beauty is truly in the eye of the beholder when we see all through GOD's eye's.

Originally Posted by juantoo3

Looking to nature for a moral guide implies humanity returning to the state of an animal. Humanity has come way beyond that now, to return is folly.

hmm..so do you honestly consider that the nature of your being is not of any higher consciousness then an animal? Yes animals have feelings, and thought led emotions, they like to have partners and some do not like to compete or work, they also remember their past lives and have problems with their inner child but they are animals. The human being also has animal traits of anger, fear, hostility, insecurity etc and it is these negative human traits that we can heal so that we can raise our consciousness beyond the instinct of an animal and be guided by our soul - the true nature of our spiritual being.

A wounded animal is dangerous indeed and there is plenty of wounded humans and wounded leaders on this planet. The sooner we heal ourselves and find the peace within the quicker there will be peace on earth and no more wars!

Originally Posted by juantoo3

a condition of only positive energy would simply shift the neutral potential to a higher level.

Correct and once one is vibrating at 5th dimensional consciousness which is a state of being not a scientific model, negativity cannot enter your domain unless you allow it. I give you this analogy angels can descend to us to communicate but we cannot go up to them unless we raise our consciousness which many on this planet are doing. So negative energy cannot reach the angels but the angels can reach us. Now if you have ever met an angel you would know that they do not need any negative energy to be in existence! But I do agree negative energy as a positive purpose in showing us what we need to heal within.

Originally Posted by juantoo3

Without a negative for the energy to flow to (or perhaps I have this backwards), there is no flow of energy. Yin and Yang. Hence, if only positive energy existed, there would be no energy flow. Since life requires energy to flow in order to exist, without energy flow there is no life. In other words, unbalance.

I think I have covered this on the yin yang thread yesterday. Energy cannot flow harmonically when negativity is in the way hence why we have chaos on the planet, when we harmonise both energies, the two energies become one.

Originally Posted by juantoo3

Positive and negative, light and dark, joy and pain, happiness and sadness, love and fear, these are the dichotomies that compose this existence. Without one side of the scale, the other side is unbalanced, and the total can not exist.

I understand and this is part of free will what we choose to co-create, the balance between the two is Grace the two become one, in oneness with GOD.

Originally Posted by juantoo3

Humanity has chosen the path of morality

Humanity has chosen the path of materialism and selfishness hence why the planet and its people are in a mess. The tree of life is dying and the roots are rotting with selfishness. The roots will be dug up, many energies are leaving the planet due to their self created disease and creation of imbalance. In the last nine months I have heard of a bereavement every two-three weeks it is a shocking state of affairs when you know that people can avoid disease by making the changes they need to make.

Originally Posted by juantoo3

Even so, without the negative pole, that energy cannot flow.

This is an old scientic model!

The latest in cellular biology proves that the cells can only go in one direction at one time they choose fear or love, when the cells choose fear the cells alienate from the community and then create disease. This is our nature and it is the true nature of the human being responding to its environment. www.brucelipton.com

Love beyond measure

Sacredstar

[lunamoth]

Originally Posted by Sacredstar

The latest in cellular biology proves that the cells can only go in one direction at one time they choose fear or love, when the cells choose fear the cells alienate from the community and then create disease. This is our nature and it is the true nature of the human being responding to its environment. www.brucelipton.com

Love beyond measure

Sacredstar

I found nothing about cells "choosing" love or fear on Bruce Lipton's website--perhaps you could cut and past the relevant parts of the "latest in cellular biology" that proves the above statement. I thought perhaps I would find something in this essay by Lipton from the website:

Insight into Cellular "Consciousness"
Dr. Bruce H. Lipton, Ph.D. © 2001
Reprinted from Bridges, 2001 Vol 12(1):5
ISSEEM (303) 425-4625

Though a human is comprised of over fifty trillion cells, there are no physiologic functions in our bodies that were not already pre-existing in the biology of the single, nucleated (eukaryotic) cell. Single-celled organisms, such as the amoeba or paramecium, possess the cytological equivalents of a digestive system, an excretory system, a respiratory system, a musculoskeletal system, an immune system, a reproductive system and a cardiovascular system, among others. In the humans, these physiologic functions are associated with the activity of specific organs. These same physiologic processes are carried out in cells by diminutive organ systems called organelles.

This sweeping statement greatly oversimplifies the physiology of eukaryotic cells. While such a simplification does help one gain a basic understanding that cells carry out various functions using organelles, it becomes problematic later in the essay when the author starts referring to a cellular "nervous sysem" and "brain."

for those interested in the source, Bridges:

Bridges


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Magazine of
The International Society for the Study of Subtle Energies & Energy Medicine
Editors
Carol J. Schneider, Ph.D., Editor in Chief
C. Penny Hiernu, Managing Editor


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Statement of Purpose
Bridges, the ISSSEEM Magazine, is published primarily for the purpose of establishing a professional resource for practitioners and individuals who are interested in the study of informational systems and energies that interact with the human psyche and physiology, either enhancing or perturbing healthy homeostasis. Bridges is published quarterly and includes theoretical or informational papers, short research articles, case studies, reports, book reviews, and interviews with leading figures in the study or uses of subtle energies. Readers are encouraged to submit manuscripts to be considered for publication. Articles should be related to subtle energies and/or energy medicine and may range between 500 and 2500 words. Bridges includes diverse opinions and explorations. Any therapies presented are not necessarily proven, but are only indications of treatment modalities that may be of interest to readers. Papers included reflect the opinion of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the thoughts of the editors, the staff, or the board of ISSSEEM.

Back to Lipton's article:

Cellular life is sustained by tightly regulating the functions of the cell’s physiologic systems. The expression of predictable behavioral repertoires implies the existence of a cellular "nervous system." This system reacts to environmental stimuli by eliciting appropriate behavioral responses. The organelle that coordinates the adjustments and reactions of a cell to its internal and external environments would represent the cytoplasmic equivalent of the "brain."

Here Lipton redefines and again vastly simplifies the terms nervous system and brain to suit his own hypotheses. Here is the Webster definition of brain:

the portion of the vertebrate central nervous system that constitutes the organ of thought and neural coordination, includes all the higher nervous center receiving stimuli from the sense organs and interpreting and correlating them to formulate the motor impulses

Back to Lipton's article,

Since the breaking of the genetic code in the early 1950's, cell biologists have favored the concept of genetic determinism, the notion that genes "control" biology. Virtually all of the cell’s genes are contained within the cell’s largest organelle, the nucleus. Conventional opinion considers the nucleus to be the "command center" of the cell. As such, the nucleus would represent the cellular equivalent of the "brain."

Here Lipton sets up a strawman, the supposed scientific consensus that the nucleus is the cell brain. While many freshman bio majors like this kind of metaphor to help them memorize for their exams, it is far from the conventional opinion. Later Lipton will dramatically tear down this strawman.

Since the breaking of the genetic code in the early 1950's, cell biologists have favored the concept of genetic determinism, the notion that genes "control" biology. Virtually all of the cell’s genes are contained within the cell’s largest organelle, the nucleus. Conventional opinion considers the nucleus to be the "command center" of the cell. As such, the nucleus would represent the cellular equivalent of the "brain."
Genetic determinism infers that the expression and fate of an organism are primarily "predetermined" in its genetic code. The genetic basis of organismal expression is ingrained in the biological sciences as a consensual truth, a belief by which we frame our reference for health and disease. Hence the notion that susceptibility to certain illnesses or the expression of aberrant behavior is generally linked to genetic lineage and, on occasions, spontaneous mutations. By extension, it is also perceived by a majority of scientists that the human mind and consciousness are "encoded" in the molecules of the nervous system. This in turn promotes the concept that the emergence of consciousness reflects the "ghost in the machine."
The primacy of DNA in influencing and regulating biological behavior and evolution is based upon an unfounded assumption. A seminal article by H. F. Nijhout (BioEssays 1990, 12 (9):441-446) describes how concepts concerning genetic "controls" and "programs" were originally conceived as metaphors to help define and direct avenues of research. Widespread repetition of this compelling hypothesis over fifty years has resulted in the "metaphor of the model" becoming the "truth of the mechanism," in spite of the absence of substantiative supporting evidence. Since the assumption emphasizes the genetic program as the "top rung" on the biological control ladder, genes have acquired the status of causal agents in eliciting biological expression and behavior (e.g., genes causing cancer, alcoholism, even criminality).

Here a second strawman is set up: that reductionist thinking in genetics has lead scientists to conclude that all disease is the result of genetic predetermination. Not true. The interplay between genetics, physiology and environment has always been fullly appreciated in cell biology, genetics, and medical science in whole.

The notion that the nucleus and its genes are the "brain" of the cell is an untenable and illogical hypothesis. If the brain is removed from an animal, disruption of physiologic integration would immediately lead to the organism's death. If the nucleus truly represented the brain of the cell, then removal of the nucleus would result in the cessation of cell functions and immediate cell death. However, experimentally enucleated cells may survive for two or more months with out genes, and yet are capable of effecting complex responses to environmental and cytoplasmic stimuli (Lipton, et al., Differentiation 1991, 46:117-133). Logic reveals that the nucleus can not be the brain of the cell!

And the strawman is destroyed!! Oh thank you Dr. Lipton for saving science from the death grip of rational, reductionist materialism! Oh wait, or has he...

to be continued...

lunamoth (sorry, I couldn't resist)

[juantoo3]

Kindest Regards, Sacredstar!

Thank you for the response.

Originally Posted by Sacredstar

Well I do not have a problem with being challenged when it comes from pure intent.

Very good. I am pleased to see you are not another closed-minded person who believes that by calling themselves open-minded, they actually are.

Since I managed to overlook the comment concerning irrationality elsewhere, I will dismiss it here.

in my domain everything is perfect because all is meant to be! Beauty is truly in the eye of the beholder when we see all through GOD's eye's.

I do hope you will not object when I return to this later?

hmm..so do you honestly consider that the nature of your being is not of any higher consciousness then an animal?

Quite the contrary, and I believed I was quite explicit in conveying this. Humanity has moved far beyond the consciousness of an animal, which is a major reason I believe it is fallacy to look to nature for moral guidance.

While I can basically agree with some components of your assessment of animals (having feelings and even emotions), I do think some of your synopsis is anthropomorphizing, that is, applying human traits and characteristics onto an animal. As for past lives, etc., we will simply have to agree to disagree.

The human being also has animal traits of anger, fear, hostility, insecurity etc and it is these negative human traits that we can heal so that we can raise our consciousness beyond the instinct of an animal and be guided by our soul - the true nature of our spiritual being.

Why would these things need to be healed, if as you said earlier, "...everything is perfect because all is meant to be!"? Please note, it is not that I believe healing is not necessary, but your reason for healing is what I question.

A wounded animal is dangerous indeed and there is plenty of wounded humans and wounded leaders on this planet.

Ah, mixed metaphors, gotta love 'em! I just have to ask what it is exactly you mean by "wounded" when referring to humans, if by "wounded" when referring to animals I presume you to mean "injured?" Injured human leaders simply have to find a way to cope if they are to continue leading.

The sooner we heal ourselves and find the peace within the quicker there will be peace on earth and no more wars!

Yet, war is a natural state just as much as peace is. It has been since the first single celled creature ate another. "...everything is perfect because all is meant to be!", "...in God's eyes."

Don't get me wrong, I am not a warmonger. War is a tragic state to be in! But there are times when it is necessary. All life consumes other life, this is the natural state of chi, the flow of energy we have already discussed. Matter and energy do not "disappear," they merely take another form. In order for a life to continue, it must convert other life into energy. There is no food that was not once alive, in fact it is useless to the body if it has not been alive. So, all humans kill, directly or indirectly, in order to survive. This too "... is perfect because all is meant to be!"

Correct and once one is vibrating at 5th dimensional consciousness which is a state of being not a scientific model, negativity cannot enter your domain unless you allow it. I give you this analogy angels can descend to us to communicate but we cannot go up to them unless we raise our consciousness which many on this planet are doing. So negative energy cannot reach the angels but the angels can reach us. Now if you have ever met an angel you would know that they do not need any negative energy to be in existence! But I do agree negative energy as a positive purpose in showing us what we need to heal within.

I sense either a gross miscommunication, or else we see things very differently. What you portray here has no relation to the flow of electricity, or any form of energy, that I am aware of. Energy flows from a source to a collector. Period. We call the source "positive" and the collector "negative" in order to give them names. Without a source, there is no flow. Without a collector, there is no flow. With no flow, there is no life, spiritual or material. It is arguable whether or not a being, spiritual or material, can move across the flow or against the flow, but the flow must be present.

Energy cannot flow harmonically when negativity is in the way hence why we have chaos on the planet, when we harmonise both energies, the two energies become one.

Quite the contrary, without the collector or negative pole, energy cannot flow, harmonically or otherwise. Harmony, by my understanding, is by being in tune with the flow, not one or the other aspect of the flow. And that harmony is not achieved by the source alone, or by the collector alone. Harmony REQUIRES the balance of both!

I understand and this is part of free will what we choose to co-create, the balance between the two is Grace the two become one, in oneness with GOD.

Here, you confuse the daylights out of me, by contradicting yourself from earlier.

Humanity has chosen the path of materialism and selfishness hence why the planet and its people are in a mess. The tree of life is dying and the roots are rotting with selfishness. The roots will be dug up, many energies are leaving the planet due to their self created disease and creation of imbalance. In the last nine months I have heard of a bereavement every two-three weeks it is a shocking state of affairs when you know that people can avoid disease by making the changes they need to make.

Ah, what a lovely poetic picture! Might I remind again, "everything is perfect because all is meant to be!"

Humanity, life as we know it, the entire planet, was created material.
Selfishness is innate in higher order animals, not just humans. Selfishness is not (repeat NOT) necessarily a bad thing, it is how we survive by looking after ourselves, our loved ones and those things we hold dear. Does this get bent out of shape and misdirected? Of course, it can. I believe it is misdirected selfishness that you need to be concerned with. Just as excess in any "good" thing can be "bad."

And now I can return to my disease. According to you then, I have brought it upon myself? To which I once again reply, "hardly!" Sometimes bad things happen to good people, that's just the way life is, that is the hand I was dealt and I deal with it. It is between me and my God, and not for you to cast unwarranted or unmerited judgement.

(concerning the flow of energy) This is an old scientic model!

It is an old scientific model, dating probably to Ben Franklin's experiments with electricty. And it works. Everything from the lighting in your house to your television to your microwave to your computer. All modern electronics work by this "old" model, and since electricity is one of the 3 main components of sub-atomic theory (used to be four), the question returns then as to who to believe; you, or the evidence and scholarship of countless thousands who have taken the "old" scientific model and turned it into technology to improve our lives? Because it works!

Now, I realize I am running the risk of appearing dogmatic on this, but I think I would rather be dogmatic in this instance than to be misguided. This "old" model of the flow of energy has it's correspondence in other belief systems, most notably the Tao. And while I would happily defer to someone like Vaj who evidently is more versed than I on the subject of Taoism, I cannot dismiss out of hand and lightly the practical application of energy flow theory. I am afraid I have seen absolutely nothing to refute this "old" model.

The latest in cellular biology proves that the cells can only go in one direction at one time they choose fear or love, when the cells choose fear the cells alienate from the community and then create disease. This is our nature and it is the true nature of the human being responding to its environment.

I will be kind and leave this alone.

Love beyond measure

I too, wish you love beyond measure.

Shalom

[juantoo3]

Kindest Regards, lunamoth!

What a pleasure to hear from you again!

Thank you most sincerely for following up on this, and for the reinforcement-

Originally Posted by lunamoth

Here a second strawman is set up: that reductionist thinking in genetics has lead scientists to conclude that all disease is the result of genetic predetermination. Not true. The interplay between genetics, physiology and environment has always been fullly appreciated in cell biology, genetics, and medical science in whole.

---

And the strawman is destroyed!! Oh thank you Dr. Lipton for saving science from the death grip of rational, reductionist materialism! Oh wait, or has he...

to be continued...

lunamoth (sorry, I couldn't resist)

LOL! That's OK, we're all here to learn and have some fun!

[Sacredstar]

Dear Lunamoth

As I have said before on these forums you really have to see the video's on Professsor Bruce Lipton's work for the full scientific evidence that was carried out at Stansford University over many years.

I thought exactly like all of you when a medical doctor in the UK first presented this to me, I was closed and not open to this until I saw the video's.

Bruce is a wonderful man so I am sure he would be happy to respond to your specific questions if you take the time and interest to email him direct.

Dear J

It is only meant to be because 'we choose it' not because it is GOD's plan. And some people like doing it the hard way, two men this week I predict that one as got up to 4 years and the other less then 2 to live unless they rapidly change their lifestyles, environment, intent and heal the self. The BMA and the medical profession have admitted for many year's now that 85% of all disease is caused by stress. So then we have to look at the root causes of the core issue of stress to find what is causing the blockages in the MBS.

I had cancer when I was 25 year's old through self healing I discovered the metaphysics behind the disease was the fear that I had of my mother, I could go on as there was so much pain, suffering and tragedy in my life I was forced to look for the reasons why, hence why a lot of my conclusions come from the evidence of my own experience and my professional career in helping others to heal their consciousness.

A child psychologist responsible for a whole counties education facility with a brain tumour happily reported that a book that I had written had saved his life, he said doctors gave him no hope. Cases like this speak for themselves.

You have stated some inaccuracies e.g. regarding the research of remote scanning by the CIA but I do not feel the need to defend it because what I have written is truth and yes they did buy a large group of top remote viewers from a spritual organisation in the US in the mid 80's.

So the article as proven its point to me at least...and I have nothing more to add to what is in the original article it really speaks for itself. To those that have the ears to hear let them hear, to those that have the eyes to see let them see so that their hearts can embrace a brave new world.

If members are truly interested in what is written they can do their own research on the net or I will be happy to respond to PM's.

Love beyond measure

Sacredstar

[Ciel]

Sacred Star,
Thank you, Your patience is indeed true proof of your humility.

[lunamoth]

Originally Posted by Sacredstar

Dear Lunamoth

As I have said before on these forums you really have to see the video's on Professsor Bruce Lipton's work for the full scientific evidence that was carried out at Stansford University over many years.

I thought exactly like all of you when a medical doctor in the UK first presented this to me, I was closed and not open to this until I saw the video's.

In all sincerity, Sacredstar, can you explain to me what you saw in the video that made you believe that Bruce Lipton's work is a breakthough in understanding the physical-spiritual connection? Because reading through his website material I just do not see it. Can you tell me in your own words what this is all about? It does not make sense to me. Just referring me to his work has not enlightened me at all.

Of course, if we've abandoned logic and reason altogether then I guess it's best to just drop it.

Peace, lunamoth

[lunamoth]

Originally Posted by juantoo3

Kindest Regards, lunamoth!

What a pleasure to hear from you again!

Thank you most sincerely for following up on this, and for the reinforcement-

---

LOL! That's OK, we're all here to learn and have some fun!

And greetings to you too, Jt3! You've been missed.

I don't know, as a rational (mostly ) mainline liberal protestant Christian God-gene-challenged evolutionist I'm sure my support does not count for much, even with a Ph.D..

peace,
lunamoth

[lunamoth]

continued from above, on Insight into Cellular "Consciousness" by Bruce Lipton.

Genetic determinism infers that the expression and fate of an organism are primarily "predetermined" in its genetic code. The genetic basis of organismal expression is ingrained in the biological sciences as a consensual truth, a belief by which we frame our reference for health and disease. Hence the notion that susceptibility to certain illnesses or the expression of aberrant behavior is generally linked to genetic lineage and, on occasions, spontaneous mutations. By extension, it is also perceived by a majority of scientists that the human mind and consciousness are "encoded" in the molecules of the nervous system. This in turn promotes the concept that the emergence of consciousness reflects the "ghost in the machine."

I have never heard of or read in any peer-reviewed scientific journal the idea that the fate of an organism is genetically predetermined. It will always be greatly effected by environmental stimuli and disease. The genetic basis of PROTEIN expression is an accepted hypothesis. The expression of genes, which means which genes are turned on or off at any given time, has always been known to be greatly effected by developmental stage and signals from the environment, both from the external environment and the internal cellular environment. The idea that the sum of our mind and consciousness is simply the result of brain chemistry, and by extension the sum of our genes as they are expressed by our environment, may be a hypothesis among specialists in this area of research, but it is far from a widely accepted and tested theory. Another strawman.

Studies on cloned human cells led me to the awareness that the cell’s plasmalemma, commonly referred to as the cell membrane, represents the cell’s "brain." Cell membranes, the first biological organelle to appear in evolution, are the only organelle common to every living organism. Cell membranes compartmentalize the cytoplasm, separating it from the vagaries of the external environment. In its barrier capacity, the membrane enables the cell to maintain tight "control" over the cytoplasmic environment, a necessity in carrying out biological reactions. Cell membranes are so thin that they can only be observed using the electron microscope. Consequently, the existence and universal expression of the membrane structure was only clearly established around 1950.

Now this is an interesting idea and the plasmalemma is a fascinating organelle, and one that has been very difficult to study due to its amphipathic nature. Thanks to mutant analysis in model organisms such as the nematode and fruit fly, and thanks to the genome sequencing of these and many other organisms, much more rapid progress is being made into understanding the function of the cell membrane. However, Lipton has just replaced one quite material organelle (the nucleus) with another (the cell membrane) as fitting his model for the "brain" of the cell. What is going to make the cell membrane more susceptible to metaphysical influences than the nucleus? I can't wait to find out!

The next twelve paragraphs of the essay are a basic lesson in the structure of cell membranes, so I will skip these. The only thing I will note is that he points out that there are receptor proteins embedded in the lipid bilayer of the cell membrane and these interact with signals from the environment, both chemical and (dramatic music please) ENERGETIC in nature. I also have to object to his use of the term "cellular awareness," which he introduces here to describe the cellular changes that are induced by such stimuli. There is no basis for saying that a cell is self-aware. This seems to be his way of saying a cell has consciousness and this claim is otherwise not substantiated in this essay, nor is any reference given to other papers where such research might be described.

Putting all the pieces together we are provide with insight as to how the cell’s "brain" processes information and elicits behavior. The innumerable molecular and radiant energy signals in a cell's environment creates a virtual cacophony of information. In a manner resembling a biological Fourier transform, individual surface receptors (Fig. H) sense the apparently chaotic environment and filter out specific frequencies as behavioral signals. Receipt of a resonant signal (Fig. I, arrow) induces a conformational change in the cytoplasmic portion of the receptor (Fig. I, arrowhead). This conformational change enables the receptor to complex with a specific effector IMP (Fig. J, in this case a channel IMP). Binding of the receptor protein (Fig. K) in turn elicits a conformational change in the effector protein (Fig. L, channel opens). Activated receptors can turn on enzyme pathways, induce structural reorganization and motility or activate transport of uniquely pulsed electrical signals and ions across the membrane.

Except for calling the cell membrane a brain and not explaining from where the innumerable radiant energy signals arise, this is also a basic description of how an environmental stimuli interacts with a receptor and starts a signal transduction chain. The next two paragraphs elaborate on this and even point out that one of the possible results of signal transduction is the elicitation of (oh my!) gene expression.

The next paragraph is where it gets a bit dodgy.

The behavior of the cell is controlled by the combined actions of coupled receptors and effector IMPs. Receptors provide "awareness of the environment" and effector proteins convert that awareness into "physical sensation." By strict definition, a receptor-effector complex represents a fundamental unit of perception. Protein perception units provide the foundation of biological consciousness. Perceptions "control" cell behavior, though in truth, a cell is actually "controlled" by beliefs, since perceptions may not necessarily be accurate.

Look, I'm sorry, but this one has me ROFL.

Need a break.

[lunamoth]

Just to conclude, I finished reading the essay. Not to belabor the point, but I never found the connection between the cell membrane and our spiritual nature or a new scientific paradigm that takes the metaphysical into account. He made an interesting comparison between cell membranes and computer chips and at the end concluded: "The expression of the cell reflects the recognition of all perceived environmental stimuli, both physical and energetic. Consequently, the "Heart of Energy Medicine" may truly be found in the magic of the membrane. " But I dont' get it.

Sorry to be a boring old wet-blanket rationalist. I get it from my Dad.

Peace,
lunamoth

[Sacredstar]

Dear Lunamoth

Well if one is coming from a foundation of accepting that the mind-body connection is now accepted for the forward thinkers of the medical profession and a tremendous amount of current research is being done in this area, Bruce Lipton's work and Professor William Tiller's work at www.heartmath.org takes the mind-body work to the next stage. Christian Scientists have also done a lot of work on the effects of forgiveness and I understand there as been substantial research done on the power of prayer. Another organisation of scientists have done research on how guilt breaks down the immune system I will see if I can find that link too. There was also research done on anger and how this is the biggest predictor of heart disease.

In mind-body work we know that our thoughts create the emotion and that this creates the imbalance.

I would have to find all of my notes about Bruce's work to ensure I give you accurate information. But what stands out in my memory is what I stated before Bruce shows us scientifically that the cells can only go in one direction at one time, so based upon our thoughts, beliefs and perceptions the cells choose which direction they will go. So for instance the cells choose to go into protection -v- openness, fear -v- love depending on what we experience in our environment. So in my case I experienced situations in my childhood that created fear within me, I felt alienated from my family and as such my cells started to alienate themselves from the community of cells and when this happens disease begins.

When Bruce says that perceptions are not always accurate what I think he is referring to is that sometimes what we perceive is incorrect e.g. my own analogy 99% of what we worry about never happens. We may react to a perceived threat when there is no threat at all. The environment triggers us and in turn triggers our thoughts and this then triggers our cells.

From my own work I know that our lens of perceptional consciousness can be clouded with negative perceptions as seen on this thread, a negative perception is a result of the root causes of our own core issues due to our previous response to our environment most often established in childhood.

I was introduced to Professor Bruce Lipton and Professor William Tiller's work www.tillerfoundation.com by Dr Samanta-Laughton who discovered their work while at an International Consciousness conference of leading edge scientists in the US. Dr Samanta-Laughton is a member of the Doctor-Healer network in the UK and I did meet the Chair that teaches doctors to be doctors, he also embraces the metaphsyics, the mind-body connection and the physical barometer.

My heart tells me that it is very difficult to get the full 2 hour scientific evidence into a simple article that can reach all minds and hearts, so my advice stands. If you are coming from pure intent and have a serious interest please take the time and effort to view his work in much greater depth by watching the full 2 hour presentation. As Bruce says this evidence shows us that Psychology must catch up with the latest developments in cellular biology.

If you are interested in Dr Samanta-Laughton's work you can view her website here www.drmunchie.com

Love beyond measure

Sacredstar

[Sacredstar]

My own view

One last clarification, in healing consciousness multi-dimensionally I embrace the pre-disposition of disease travelling transgernationally through the genetics but it is stress that triggers this disease into action e.g. 85% is created by our free will.

I also accept energetic disease that shapeshifts transgenersationally, homeopaths call this miasms. I also accept that our physical bodies can be harmed by what we consume and other aspects of our environment. I accept the impact of past lives and the energetics of disease that travels from there as part of the karmic plan (which in my domain results to 15% of all ill-health). We are multi-dimensional beings and all is affected multi-dimensionally. As everything is energy there is no separation between us and the environment in which we reside. It is the true nature of being multi-dimensional.

And as we live in a multi-dimensional universe, the way that we view things can also be multi-dimensional.

I was asked to do a Phd on my work by a well known clinical psychologist who experienced my past life and soul retrieval work, but another senior lecturer from Essex University advised me that it would be better to publish a book healing multi-dimensionally, so maybe I will one day if it is part of GOD's plan. But I doubt it would convince the rationalists here which is why I promote the evidence of personal experience.

I am way behind with my work now so must get on.

Bless you all

Sacredstar

[lunamoth]

Dear Sacredstar,

Yes, I know there is a mind-body connection and that mood and stress affect our immune system and that we respond at the cellular level via electrobiochemical pathways to stimulations that arise in the brain. Endocrinology is not my area of expertise but it is hardly a new field of investigation. As for the power of prayer and other types of faith and energy based healing, yes I have heard of these studies and think there is some real venefit in these practices. But I admit I think this benefit is linked through non-supernatural means related to mind-body chemisty and is not 100% effective. Many people are overstressed and feel unheard or unwanted in our society and I think this adds significantly to disease.

Aside: Let me also say that I believe that God hears and answers our prayers although by belief is that these prayers are answered at the moment of the world's creatin and it does not matter our deeds or creeds or lack thereof.

What I am objecting to here is not the practice of alternative medicine or energy healing. I object to the sloppy and misleading use of science and terminology and the lack of critical thinking used in Lipton's essay and all that I gleaned from his website. It really seems like (what may be) respectable science dressed up with new age terms and unsubstantiated claims. For what purpose?

To my distress I am living in a country where well-meaning but misguided people are trying to suppress the teaching of science in the schools and where our president also makes statements like evolution is only a theory. I've seen that it is futile to discuss this controversy becasue it is the immovable object of faith against the irresistable force of reason. Don't get me wrong--I feel very fortunate to live in the USA. But what have we learned from history about when ideology overpowers rationality? Things like the dark ages, the decline of once power-house Islamic science, Communist Russia and the cultural revolution come to mind. Yes, science must be ethical and guided by spiritual principles for the service of mankind. But, as intelligent and spirtual people let's not fall into the tempting trap of pseudoscience.

Peace to you, Sacredstar. I support you on your mission of spreading God's love and compassion.

cheers,
lunamoth

[Bandit]

I would like to join this for a bit, but I am not sure what to say. It seems that everyone with any reasoning is eventually going to come to the same basic conclusion.

It is hard for me to follow because there are so many different examples and different realms of life in the thread.
Are we saying it is impossible to have a constant flow of positive energy without any negative?
In the natural earth (physical elements) I think it is impossible.
But in a different realm (spirit/heavenly) I think it is possible to have only positive flow. However, while still on earth we are subject to both positive and negative flows and that is how we know the difference and why things work the way they do.

Is it possible to TASTE only positive energy for awhile? I think it is.

I have known people who are so positive, they just ignore the negative like it is not there. I dont think that is a good way to be. Then, some who are positive and are able to see the negative, but turn the bad into a positive situation which is a better way to be IMO.
And of course the ones who only see negative and sometimes they are drawn to a better outlook.

That is all I can say because I cannot follow what everyone is talking about. Is it possible to start again with the basic question or principle or law?
Then apply all the different aspects of life to it one at a time.

I am not certain that EVERY aspect of life can be looked at the same way, but maybe it can with a little understanding.