Re: Native American Spirituality

[InLove]

Perhaps the river has already begun to flow...who knew? I love this...

InPeace,
InLove

[pohaikawahine]

sorry to do another back to back post .... but I just posted this on another thread (exceptional depth of mind) in response to a statement by another poster about the mind being compared to two cones .joined at the center... anyway, this seems like a good post for discussion about native american spirituality .... here is my post:


"interesting that you use this description .... the native american "tipi" (and I should state not all tribes use the 'tipi') is suppose to the a part of an image of sacred above and sacred below .... the sacred above and sacred below are viewed as two vortices joined at their apexes (or two cones joined at the center)

the building of a 'tipi' is the recreation of the world .... it is done in a very specific pattern starting first with 3 poles .... it is the building of a star as the foundation of the world .... once the star is realized and things are centered, 7 more poles are added .... this is the stabilization, the ordering of space, time and movement .... then two more poles are added which are the 'ears' which control the flow of air in the tipi, air which is the vehicle of spirit .... the tipi and the world can now breathe spirit in and out and communicate with the higher powers .... it is through the process of prayer that the connection is made with the light from above then the two vortices are completed ....this comes from Lakota Star Knowledge ....

other tribes have different structures for homes and living, and they also have very specific symbols and rituals that recreate the world so that we remember who we are .....

I don't know what exceptional depth of mind really means .... but it seems that answers come best when you don't think about them .... too much thought sometimes muddies the waters .... and muddy water is not a good conduit for thought .... me ke aloha pumehana, pohaikawahine"


__________________

[Bandit]

i found some interesting Native American quotes here, for anyone interested.

http://www.ilhawaii.net/~stony/quotes.html


"Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children." Ancient Indian Proverb

Metea, a Potowatami chief of the Illinois nation

"My Father: a long time has passed since first we came upon our lands; and our people have all sunk into their graves. They had sense. We are all young and foolish, and do not wish to do anything that they would not approve, were they living. We are fearful we shall offend their spirits if we sell our lands; and we are fearful we shall offend you if we do not sell them. This has caused us great perplexity of thought, because we have counselled among ourselves, and do not know how we can part with our lands. My Father, we have sold you a great tract of land already; but it is not enough! We sold it to you for the benefit of your children, to farm and to live upon. We have now but a little left. We shall want it all for ourselves. We know not how long we shall live, and we wish to leave some lands for our children to hunt upon. You are gradually taking away our hunting grounds. Your children are driving us before them. We are growing uneasy. What lands you have you may retain. But we shall sell no more

Lone Man (Isna-la-wica) Teton Sioux

... I have seen that in any great undertaking it is not enough for a man to depend simply upon himself.

[InLove]

Thanks Bandit--have not checked out the website yet, but the words you have posted seem good to me.

Have you visited the site I told you about?

If you have, what did you think?

As Always,
InPeace, and InLove

[InLove]

Hi, and Peace to All--

Dear pohaikawahine--I am so interested in the way you know about symbols. Do you know anything about the symbols of the Anastazi?

I have always found their symbols intriguing--I was invited once to go on a "field trip" of discovery in this area, but alas, I could not afford to do so.

I really am enjoying your input, and would like to hear more from you about the Polynesian American experience. (Sorry--I know that sounds really mundane) but I know that what you might have to say will mean something to me and maybe others. One of the first things my husband said to me when I introduced him to this website was something along the lines of "Are there any Polynesian views being represented here?" And then you came along....

I know that it is a bit difficult, and that is why you stick to the meaning of symbols. And I think that is a good compromise. Or perhaps just necessity. It is difficult to speak in a comparative religion forum about something one does not consider to be religion. I understand.

Anyway--my posts have not been too "deep" lately, because my time is limited (LOL--maybe my posts were never too deep anyway).

Thanks for your input--love to hear more.

InPeace,
InLove

[Bandit]

Originally Posted by InLove

Thanks Bandit--have not checked out the website yet, but the words you have posted seem good to me.

Have you visited the site I told you about?

If you have, what did you think?

As Always,
InPeace, and InLove

yes & i liked it. i thought it was wise since i know not to believe everything. i have not gone through all the links they have yet.
here is another from the site i put up. i like cartoons because they display the truth in a nice way.

[pohaikawahine]

Originally Posted by InLove

Hi, and Peace to All--

One of the first things my husband said to me when I introduced him to this website was something along the lines of "Are there any Polynesian views being represented here?" And then you came along....

It is difficult to speak in a comparative religion forum about something one does not consider to be religion. I understand.


InPeace,
InLove

aloha e inlove .... actually I am not the only one on this list .... but I'll let the other one identify herself if she wishes to (I would be glad to, but I need her permission to do so first and I haven't asked).... I've dealt with symbols for many years and they usually come easily to me (not always) .... I struggled with them in the beginning and then on a small island in the south pacific once a voice told me "when you open your eyes and see with your soul" you will know the answers ..... and since then it has been easier .... I can speak of things hawaiian and even things polynesian but they are related to a "way of life" and not religion .... but the "way of life" is also the "tao" and it has spiritual implications .....

the political situation regarding kanaka maoli (hawaiians) is very complex and the path has split into many .... one is to establish a nation-within-a-nation, one is maintain the status quo, another is to deal only with the united nations and reclaim all lands, one is reinstitute the ali'i (kings and queens) .... for myself the bottom line is that we gave up our sovereignty long ago when we forgot who we really were (this was long before there were ali'i .... kings and queens .... who were imported and not of the original culture) .... we allowed others to take our power and use it to control us and subjugate us .... when we wake from the deep sleep we will realize that it has been within us all along and our aumakua (our ancestors) left us many clues .... when we open our eyes and see with our souls ..... no sense in casting blame on others, the responsibility is ours to find our way back to freedom by starting with the inner path ...

once I realized that this path was not ours alone, but belonged to all traditions and even religions, the symbols began to take on new shapes and the bridging began .... I have three names given to me by others .... I will tell you about them because they have become the essence of who I am .... one is "pohaikawahine" which literally means a "circle of women" but is much deeper and is related to a line of 12 women originally from the island of Molokai (I cannot tell you their names because it is kapu) ..... another is from a small island called Belau and the name is "didil" which means "to bridge" (didn't really appreciate it when I first received it, but it made more sense later in life), and another is from another small island called Yap and the name is "mitag" which means "my eyes" .... name giving is an important process in the south pacific, just as it is with native american cultures ..... even names become symbols ....

I call my grandson "mo'o" which means "dragon" and he is learning about dragon energy which is the spiralling energy within .... this is an important concept in the hawaiian language .... for example "mo'owini" is a vision, "mo'olio" is our pathway, "mo'oku'auhau" are our genealogy chants, and "mo'owahine" is a dragon goddess with many meanings within her name and her legend ..... this name is also carried in some families including mine .....I might add here that in the ancient hawaiian traditions a prophet was called "kaula" which means pure energy, a light carrier .... and the carriers of light are also found in the name Kalama (the lama torch, or the night torch) which is connected to the name of that Hawaiian and settled in Kalama, Washington ....


while all of this may sound like it has little to do with comparative religion, it really has everything to do with comparative religions because it is the inner spiralling energy that links everything (in my view) (that is the essence of dragon energy).... in some asian cultures it is said that "only the emperor rides the dragon to the top of the mountain", but this is not true .... everyone can ride the dragon to the top of the mountain, but we forgot how to ride ....

.many native american traditions follow the same path .... "traditional Lakota believed that ceremonies done by them on earth were also being performed simultaneously in the spirit world .... what is happening in the stellar world is also being done on earth in the same at the corresponding place at the same time .... sacred power can be drawn down and attunement to the will of Wakan Tanka can be achieved" .... to me this is the meaning of the meeting of heaven and earth .... which is the symbol of the cross .... the southern cross in the sky is often used as the same symbol .... as are birds (which are in the shape of a cross) as well as string-rays (also in the shape of a cross) .... I could go into lots of detail on these, but it is probably too much .....

I see links but many others do not and so my postings may not always seem relevant to the thread at hand .... hope I haven't gotten too far off base here .... he hawai'i au, pohaikawahine

[truthseeker]

There is so much love in this thread.

My great-grandmother was Choctaw. I didn't know her (she passed a month before I was born) but my mother spent alot of time with her - though my mother doesn't know anything about her that satisfies any of the questions that I have.
Anyway, I think spirituality is passed down through lineage as well as picking it up in other ways. Aboriginal cultures have always been interesting to me because I feel that I am or have been that way of life. Spirituality is a way of life (my sermon to the choir). I am looking in on this thread and learning and becoming more and more inspired. Thanks for getting it started, In Love. And you are really interesting, Pohaikawahine.

[pohaikawahine]

aloha e truthseeker .... I'm very glad you have found something of interest in the postings of everyone here ....

the thunderbolt or lightening bolt is a common and powerful symbol of many native american tribes as well as other cultures .... to put it all in perspective it is important to know that the concept of the lightning bolt or lightening flash symbolizes the descent of divine consciousness into the plane of matter .... to have this experience is to have one's mundane consciousness overthrown .... it is a process of enlightnment or visions or revelations ....

"Initiates of the Thunderbird Clan are, like their brothers and sister of the Snake Clan, intimately associated with rain and possess special rainmaking abilitities. In order to generate bountiful preciptation, member of the Thunderbird Clan either invoke the spirit of the Thunderbird's extended body, the Thunderbeings (from Return of the Serpents of Wisdom) .... many members of the Thunderbird Clan also acquire the ability to channel the serpent power of the "Bird of Lightening" through their own bodies and use it for healing and spiritual transformation. This power is received directly from the Thunderbird and is very concentrated and deadly, this awesome energy can be transmitted into others to elicit a spontaneous healing or to awaken the inner "lightening serpent". (note: the inner lightning serpent would be equivalent to Kundalini energy)

for the Schi'tsu'umsh (the Coeur d'Alene Tribe) they have a story of red thunder .... a phenomena rarely seen in nature .... it is a red flash in the sky at night, evening, or early morning before it is fully light .... in the language of Schi'tsu'umsh the word "thunder" may apply to the accompaning and expected lightening .... the four thunders are known ancient and holy beings of nature possessing great powers and certain qualities and attributes, lightning being one of them. Therefore, this red flash is termed fopr the power or being actually behind it, the Red Thunder, dwel (red) stalonem (thunder) in their language. It is a sacred sign. (from the book Red Thunder by David Matheson)

In the Chinese tradition - the ancients believe that lightning was the written word of the gods and its vibrational resonation of thunder is the voice of their edicts.

In Hawaii, the voice of the thunder marks the beginning of the Makahiki season, this is the voice of the god Lono and a time of peace. There are rituals that take place including a trek to the top of the mountain. The top of the mountain is called "wao akua" (the forest of gods) because it is so wild that man can seldom penetrate it (that is the symbol) .... The Makahiki is a transition between two periods of time. The "hekili", lightening bolts, are the pathways of the "aumakua in the dark" (aumakua are our ancestors) .... these 'spears of light' .... shadows and rays of the sun determine time in the cosmos because they are filters of knowledge of the unknown .... in petroglyphs of cosmos designs, circular spiral whirlpools .... this is where the divination of the aumakua are given to the 'chosen ones' (remember we are all 'chosen ones') when we begin the process of letting go of the negative human energies) ....

Even little Harry Potter has a bolt of lightening in the middle of his forehead .... to me this is the symbol of the transformation of consciousness within and it take splace through aweakening of the inner "third eye".....

Interesting I saw a drawing of the Sephiroth and Paths of the Traditional Tree of Life of the Jewish tradition and the two outer paths were connected by a flash of lightening.

I was also reading an article in a publication called "Parabola" (Spring 2005 issue) and there is a short piece on epiphanies and the article is adapted from "Autobiography of a Yogi) (Paramahansa Yoganada) .... he spoke of trying to meditate and just wasn't getting anywhere because his mind was filled with disobedient thoughts .... he heard his master calling him, Sri Yukteswar, and he didn't respond .... finally after the third time he shouted "Sir, I am meditating" and his guru called out "I know how you are meditating with your mind distributed like leaves in a storm! Come here to me." When he saw him, the guru said "Poor boy, the mountains couldn't give what you wanted" "Your heart's desire shall be fulfilled." Sri Yukteswar seldom indulged in riddles and Yukteswar was surprised when the guru struck gently on his chest above the heart. His body became immovably rooted; his breath drawn out of his lungs as if by some huge magnet. His soul and mind instantly lost their physical bondage .... and he entered another world of the universe. He said that the experience can not take place through one's mere intellectual willingness or open-mindedness. Only adequate enlargement by yoga practice and devotional bhakti can prepare the mind to absorb the liberating shock of omnipresence. The title of the article is "The Liberating Shock" (so there is our lightening bolt only in another tradition) ....

I like drawing parallels in the symbols because sometimes it is easier to see something in another perspective and it does not imediately threaten our own belief system .... yet when we look deeply within, it is about us and who we are .... I hope some of this has been helpful .... he hawai'i au, pohaikawahine

[InLove]

Dear pohaikawahine,

Mahalo from my heart--thank you for your post.

Originally Posted by pohaikawahine

aloha e inlove .... actually I am not the only one on this list .... but I'll let the other one identify herself if she wishes to (I would be glad to, but I need her permission to do so first and I haven't asked)....

It would be an honor to hear from this one by name--but it is also an honor, perhaps even higher, to just hear from her.

I can speak of things hawaiian and even things polynesian....

So they are somewhat different? This is an area in which I truly am ignorant (I hate that word. To me, it implies that I purposely ignore something.) So perhaps not ignorant, but yet without the knowledge I seek in this particular area?

.... we allowed others to take our power and use it to control us and subjugate us .... when we wake from the deep sleep we will realize that it has been within us all along and our aumakua (our ancestors) left us many clues .... when we open our eyes and see with our souls ..... no sense in casting blame on others, the responsibility is ours to find our way back to freedom by starting with the inner path ...

once I realized that this path was not ours alone, but belonged to all traditions and even religions, the symbols began to take on new shapes and the bridging began ....

Yes--and I see that the Hawaiian experience may not be so different than that of the people on the mainland--but the relocation (Trail of Tears) is perhaps a bit different. I wonder if you think that there may have been something about the location or the government (perhaps even the cash crops) that was already set up before the Europeans came that made a little difference between the two histories? To me, it seems like the Hawaiians were treated with a bit more respect--(well, maybe "respect" is not the right word).

I call my grandson "mo'o" which means "dragon" and he is learning about dragon energy which is the spiralling energy within ....

I have been reading about your grandson on this and other threads here in CR. I have a couple of grandsons, and there is a song that they particularly like, and I just bet you and your grandson would like it too. I may not get it posted right away, but in the next day or so, if you have a minute, check out the "Favorite Song Lyrics" thread in the lounge. The first time you posted something about your grandson, I thought of this song. Like I say, it may take me a day or two--or who knows? I may get it posted tonight....

...while all of this may sound like it has little to do with comparative religion, it really has everything to do with comparative religions...

Yes, it does--and this is the reason I started this thread. Lemee see...does what I believe transcend religion? If so, what is it? Is Truth involved?

I would like to write more, but as I have said, I do have some demands on me these days which limit the time I would have (if I ruled the world).

Wakan Tanka, the Southern Cross--these are things that mean so much that I do not exactly know how to speak of them. Perhaps words are insufficient...

InPeace,
InLove

[InLove]

Hi Truthseeker--

You know, the Cherokee and the Choctaw cannot be too far removed from one another.

I will have to find out more about this, but to me, it makes good sense that whatever happened to one pretty much happened to the other.

I am always glad when I see you post--and particularly happy that you thought this thread was worthwhile.

I did not know it would take off like this....

I surely am glad that it has.

InPeace,
InLove

[InLove]

Hey, Bandit--

Thanks for the comic relief...

It is so good to know that you are still around...I have been thinking a lot about you lately. Been doing some reading, and considering some of your valid viewpoints on faith and religion. And Truth.

It is good that you are not gone.

And, by the way--do you think you can do something about the rain situation in Grand Prairie, Texas?

As Always,
In Peace and InLove

[Faithfulservant]

LOL yes rain.. btw getting a closer idea where you are InLove.. we live 3 miles from the race track.

Ive been trying to write this novel that has been in my head for the past 6 years.. lol

An aspect of it has been a NA legend that the story revolves around.. so I had to do a lot of research and in the process I learned a lot and had a lot of enjoyable reading at my disposal. Ive always been amazed at the symbolism in this culture..

[Bandit]

Originally Posted by InLove

Hey, Bandit--

Thanks for the comic relief...

It is so good to know that you are still around...I have been thinking a lot about you lately. Been doing some reading, and considering some of your valid viewpoints on faith and religion. And Truth.

It is good that you are not gone.

And, by the way--do you think you can do something about the rain situation in Grand Prairie, Texas?

As Always,
In Peace and InLove

i enjoy & consider your valid viewpoints also InLove & thanks for starting this up. I guess there are more Indians around than we thought. huh?

i guess i danced a little too hard? that storm surely could not be from me. i danced for it to rain here, but i guess i missed again.
sorry about that.

[Bandit]

this question is for pohaikawahine

can you tell me, do the Hawaiian tribes refer to God as the GREAT SPIRIT, like some of the mainland tribes do?
thank you in advance.