Relativism Sucks!! Pt 2

Silas · 02-06-2007, 10:37 PM

Question:

Why do people say truth is relative and that there is no absolute statement when that statement inself contradicts their claim?

juantoo3 · 02-06-2007, 10:43 PM

OK Silas, I'll play...

What color is G-d?

pfw · 02-06-2007, 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silas

Question:

Why do people say truth is relative and that there is no absolute statement when that statement inself contradicts their claim?

As I understand the above statement it can also be said as 'truth is a three sided coin'- your version, my version and the real version. The problem with the 'real' version is any truth is subject to the observers interpritation- which is coloured by many different things, some of those are going to be the persons culture, background, already formed beliefs, outlook on life (glass half full/half empty)-all sorts of things will 'distort' someones interpritation of events or words in a book, God, everything. It's only through fourms like this website that we as people can learn to appreciate others views and maybe learn and grow in knowledge and understanding of ourselves and others. Even Jesus was prepared to adapt when confronted with something he wasn't expecting- the story of the Centurian who's servant he healed. By Jesus' own words he wasn't here for 'the Gentiles' yet he helped one when he showed greater faith that even his apostles. Then there's the gentile woman by the well who's argument that 'even a dog gets to eat the crumbs from its masters table'- this argument swayed Jesus into healing her daughter. (I think I've got that right- to late and tired to check, just going on memory).

Thomas · 02-06-2007, 11:49 PM

Because the Enlightenment, starting off with all the best intentions, found itself backing up a philosophical dead end and unable to turn itself round.

So the philosophers looked again and thought, 'that can't be right' and began to review the problem. Out of Post-modernism and Deconstructionism is emerging a new optimism though, and the Continental Philosophers are leading the way.

Meanwhile it's the drum Pope Bendict XVI keeps banging, and eventually history will show we weren't being simply 'blindly dogmatic' when we refused to accept it, but speaking from a profound contemplation of more than two millenia's philosophical reflection.

Bernard Lonergan's 'Cognitive Theory' is the way to go, there's loads of resources on the internet. Very difficult, though, for a philosopher who recognises the philosophical value of 'plain old common sense' as the foundation of insight.

Chin up!

Thomas

Caimanson · 02-06-2007, 11:55 PM

The Buddha story, where a ruler asks some blind folk to describe an elefant. For the one who grasped the leg, the elefant was described as a leg, for the one who grasped the trunk the elefant was described as a trunk, etc.

All gave accurate accounts of the parts they touched, none of them was able to describe the whole elefant.

Prober · 02-07-2007, 12:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caimanson

The Buddha story, where a ruler asks some blind folk to describe an elefant. For the one who grasped the leg, the elefant was described as a leg, for the one who grasped the trunk the elefant was described as a trunk, etc.

All gave accurate accounts of the parts they touched, none of them was able to describe the whole elefant.

The Blind Men of Hindustan...

I believe in absolute truth just as I believe G-d is absolutely one certain way "I change not", etc.

The apparent variables in truth come from varying human interpretations of the truth, but there is one truth underneath.

Faithfulservant · 02-07-2007, 12:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by juantoo3

OK Silas, I'll play...

What color is G-d?

I know..I know...

Rev 4:3 And He who sat there was like a jasper and a sardius stone in appearance; and there was a rainbow around the throne, in appearance like an emerald.

Faithfulservant · 02-07-2007, 12:23 AM

I just want to say that God uses many different types of people with all their many different ways of doing things to do His work.. Moses stuttered... Simon Peter probably had a cursing problem.. but they both loved the Lord. Anyone who shares the gospel is doing Gods work no matter how they are doing it. There might be one person that reads this forum that Silas' method affects

So I dont have a problem with his lack of tact hehe

Prober · 02-07-2007, 12:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faithfulservant

I know..I know...

Rev 4:3 And He who sat there was like a jasper and a sardius stone in appearance; and there was a rainbow around the throne, in appearance like an emerald.

clap, clap, clap, clap, clap...

You get another gold star in your crown!

Dor · 02-07-2007, 12:25 AM

Back to post 1...some of us have been asking the same thing just no one can answer us and Silas was a little more blunt about it.

Silas · 02-07-2007, 02:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faithfulservant

I just want to say that God uses many different types of people with all their many different ways of doing things to do His work.. Moses stuttered... Simon Peter probably had a cursing problem.. but they both loved the Lord. Anyone who shares the gospel is doing Gods work no matter how they are doing it. There might be one person that reads this forum that Silas' method affects

So I dont have a problem with his lack of tact hehe

aww. I just love Christians! They are so blessed!

Quahom1 · 02-07-2007, 04:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silas

Question:

Why do people say truth is relative and that there is no absolute statement when that statement inself contradicts their claim?

Perhaps because people mix "truth" with "fact". Truth is a subjective concept, wherein "fact" is an objective observation of a particular result, or action.

For example when someone states "this will happen". That is considered conjecture. Depending upon how well one knows the one issuing the statement determines how much merit the listener will give to the "promise" made by the issuer of such a statement. That is truth, or the makings of such.

When someone states "this has happened". That is considered observation, particularly if it can be verified by a third party. One does not have to believe the issuer if the "fact" can be verified, but in repose, the fact does cause the witness to believe the issuer.

He tells the truth, because the facts prove he has done so...

Let us look at this another way. The Bible is called the Truth. However, the bible's truth is based in great part on "facts" occuring and being observed, so as to prove the validity of the Bible's promises. This is where faith comes in.

I believe the bible to be true, because in the past it has been proven true or factual. So, by faith, I take the future actions as described in the Bible to be true as well. It's kind of like choosing stocks and bonds. Christians are betting everything on future prospects, based on past performance...

Relativism is required just as absolute boundries are required. Black and white provides contrast, shades of gray provide reality.

Life isn't a fixed cartoon. It is a painting or drawing with depth and shadow.

v/r

Joshua

Quahom1 · 02-07-2007, 06:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silas

aww. I just love Christians! They are so blessed!

Jesus, never lost His tact...so I do have a problem Silas.

v/r

Joshua

juantoo3 · 02-07-2007, 05:01 PM

Kindest Regards, Dor!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dor

Back to post 1...some of us have been asking the same thing just no one can answer us and Silas was a little more blunt about it.

I'm not sure how you can say this, I've been addressing this very issue for over two years here. Granted, one would have to look outside of the boundaries of the Christianity board...

BTW, Kudos to Faithful! Great answer.

Silas, I know you saw the question...you had to let the girl answer it for you???

Now...does anyone see how the answer relates to the OP question?

Silas · 02-07-2007, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by juantoo3

Kindest Regards, Dor!

I'm not sure how you can say this, I've been addressing this very issue for over two years here. Granted, one would have to look outside of the boundaries of the Christianity board...

BTW, Kudos to Faithful! Great answer.

Silas, I know you saw the question...you had to let the girl answer it for you???

Now...does anyone see how the answer relates to the OP question?

Huh? What answer? Who answered what for me? By the way, Q. I'm not question if Jesus used tact or not. What I am questioning is if he were here today for the first time, would you accept his preaching. I think it was Lenoard Ravenhill that said it best, "If Jesus preached the way some preachers preached today, he would have never been nailed to the cross."