religious rights

[wil]

If I may be so bold... I think there is a little discord in communication...

My understanding is MW has been working on an Islamic dating site.

She is not intending to ban gays...it was simply not part of her design to provide for gays. ie men seeking women, women seeking men searches...no men seeking men, or women seeking women searches...it does not coincide with her understanding of Islam or her target audience. Adding these features could irritate her target audience and make the site less useful and less likely to be used by those she wishes to serve.

I don't believe she opposes others creating and maintaining such a site...and therein may lie the solution...MW would you be complying with the law by providing a link to other dating services which cater to homosexuals?? And yes maybe there is a market for the H-Islam site and you could find and point to that...

To me it is like requiring the Islamic butcher to sell pork...let those who want to get pork go someplace else....(yeah...funny how the metaphor comes up....)

[Muslimwoman]

Originally Posted by wil

To me it is like requiring the Islamic butcher to sell pork...let those who want to get pork go someplace else....(yeah...funny how the metaphor comes up....)

Oh Wil, thank you so much. You wouldn't like to be my permanent interpretor would you? What a good job of explaining my position and you are absolutely right, this would put my customers off. I had originally just started with the design for a single all religions site but have now moved into designing a second specifically for Muslims. I really, truely do not care what lifestyles people choose to live but if I open a shop selling religious books, I do not want to be forced to sell playboy.

Funny you should mention the links. As I am still in the design phase, I have included links for homosexual sites and other alternative lifestyles, along with an explanation that we are not excluding anyone but our site is for a given niche market. It is with my lawyer at the moment for an opinion as to whether this stays within the law.

Salaam

[Impqueen]

That sounds like an excellent solution

I agree that kids are being made into adults way too early. I was in a charity shop a while back looking at the kids clothes (I'm a shrimp - sometimes they fit me.... don't laugh! ) and I spotted a pvc miniskirt. 'Cool', I think but as I fish it out, I find it's way too small and look at the label. 9-10yrs! There's something wrong when we're making pvc miniskirts for 9yr olds who won't even understand the messages they're potentially sending.

Still, I think by the time puberty is in full swing we should have told them all about it. But I know you disagree. That's cool I'm never going to have kids (I hope....) so it isn't my problem anyway!

[Muslimwoman]

Originally Posted by Impqueen

(I'm a shrimp - sometimes they fit me.... don't laugh! )

Sorry I laughed and out loud too.

Originally Posted by Impqueen

There's something wrong when we're making pvc miniskirts for 9yr olds who won't even understand the messages they're potentially sending.

OMG and bloody good point. Makes you wonder what sort of parent would buy such a thing for a 9 year old and what bloody message are they trying to send and to who???

Originally Posted by Impqueen

(Still, I think by the time puberty is in full swing we should have told them all about it. But I know you disagree. That's cool I'm never going to have kids (I hope....) so it isn't my problem anyway!

It's not that I disagree, to be honest if I had a daughter I would want her to know by 14 about sex (but the biological side not the pleasure side) and the problems it could lead to, I would also want to have taught her to avoid it until her marriage. I would also dress her in suitable clothing for her age and NO she couldn't go to the disco. It just troubles me that we get these ideas that everyone should be the same and bring their children up according to society not their own moral judgement. To me it is like saying that at this age your child should be reading or this age your child should stop wetting the bed - who said so, all kids develop differently and we should treat them accordingly.

Well I have no kids either ImpQueen which makes it a little comical that we both have such strong ideas on childrearing!!!

[China Cat Sunflower]

I have two daughters, and I'm going to make damn sure they know all about sex, STD's, condoms, and the fact that all boys want is to get into your pants, plus have access to the pill when they reach puberty. I'm not going to condone sexual activity, but I'm not stupid either. As far as waiting until marriage is concerned, my personal point of view is that you ought to take it for a test drive before you buy it.

Chris

[Muslimwoman]

Originally Posted by China Cat Sunflower

I have two daughters, and I'm going to make damn sure they know all about sex, STD's, condoms, and the fact that all boys want is to get into your pants, plus have access to the pill when they reach puberty. I'm not going to condone sexual activity, but I'm not stupid either. As far as waiting until marriage is concerned, my personal point of view is that you ought to take it for a test drive before you buy it.

Chris

Hi Chris

Do you not think that it would be easier as a parent if you lived in a society where girls grew up to simply reject the idea of having sex so young? I only need go back as far as my Grandmothers young day to find that attitude. I just think we are now, as parents, reacting to society, not that we would wish this behavour from our children. So is it society that has pushed the boundary too far in a desire for freedom?

[China Cat Sunflower]

I don't know Sally, but I think we have to adjust our strategy to reflect the culture we live in. In my great grandmother's day girls were routinely married off at fourteen or fifteen. I'm going to do my utmost to instill in my daughters a sense of self possession and self-empowerment. There are many corrosive influences which I have little to no control over. As I said, I'm not convinced that waiting until marriage is a viable philosophy. It may turn out to be a case of sticking to what's "right", or at least traditional regardless of whether or not it actually works. People get married much later these days. It's a luxury that goes along with increasing longevity. How much sense does it make to wait to have sex until you're thirty? Waiting for marriage is a head in the sand approach in my opinion.

Chris

[Muslimwoman]

Originally Posted by China Cat Sunflower

I don't know Sally, but I think we have to adjust our strategy to reflect the culture we live in. In my great grandmother's day girls were routinely married off at fourteen or fifteen. I'm going to do my utmost to instill in my daughters a sense of self possession and self-empowerment. There are many corrosive influences which I have little to no control over. As I said, I'm not convinced that waiting until marriage is a viable philosophy. It may turn out to be a case of sticking to what's "right", or at least traditional regardless of whether or not it actually works. People get married much later these days. It's a luxury that goes along with increasing longevity. How much sense does it make to wait to have sex until you're thirty? Waiting for marriage is a head in the sand approach in my opinion.

Chris

I didn't say sex before marriage Chris, just sex so young. I know my view of sex before marriage is old fashioned and easy for me to say considering I had my years of 'fun' before my marriage (although I do now wish I had not but that is not a view I would push on others). However, I do wonder about our great western society and what it is pushing us toward. UK has recently changed the law to allow pubs to stay open 24 hours a day, so you can have a double whiskey at 7am before work. I just believe that in our scramble for as much freedom as we can get we are creating a moral void and being swept along in the tide. Should we make certain drugs legal (a big debate here at the moment), then there would be the age limit for drug taking and so it goes on. It also troubles me that we seem to be following the USA in our political trend of allowing corporations to dictate our morals (you have the issue of gun laws and we have drink and drugs).

There was a program on recently that looked at the dangers of excess drinking. We have, for some years now, had to place health warning labels on cigarettes. Our health organisations wanted to do the same with alchohol but the government decided against it because of pressure from alchohol manufacturers (with brilliant reasons like "they won't fit on the bottle"). The government receives vast revenues from the sale of alcohol, so to me for greed and corruption we are being led down a slippery slope there and it is only one of many. It is then all neatly wrapped up and sold to us as our right to freedom. Wow I am sounding so old and boring these days.

[Tao_Equus]

Originally Posted by Muslimwoman

Hi Chris

Do you not think that it would be easier as a parent if you lived in a society where girls grew up to simply reject the idea of having sex so young? I only need go back as far as my Grandmothers young day to find that attitude. I just think we are now, as parents, reacting to society, not that we would wish this behavour from our children. So is it society that has pushed the boundary too far in a desire for freedom?

This is a myth that does not stand up to scrutiny. I think its good to remember that people are people are people and much 'nostalgia' is sugar coated bull. I recently read that based on Parish records the average woman in rural England since the doomsday book would have her first child age 14.

Tao

[Muslimwoman]

Originally Posted by Tao_Equus

This is a myth that does not stand up to scrutiny. I think its good to remember that people are people are people and much 'nostalgia' is sugar coated bull. I recently read that based on Parish records the average woman in rural England since the doomsday book would have her first child age 14.

Tao

If you want to go back to the doomsday book then yes that was true but wasn't life expectancy about 35-37 then? Sort of sheds a different light on it methinks. I was just talking about how morals have changed so dramatically since the dawn of the sexual revolution. My Great Grandmother was from the Highlands and she left her drunken, wife beating husband and ran off to Morpeth with her 4 daughters. Shock horror. She spent the remainder of her life saying she was a widow because of the shame of being divorced. Now I am not advocating that attitude but that is rather a short space in time to go from no babies out of wedlock to lets sleep around and accept that our kids do too.

[Tao_Equus]

Originally Posted by Muslimwoman

If you want to go back to the doomsday book then yes that was true but wasn't life expectancy about 35-37 then? Sort of sheds a different light on it methinks. I was just talking about how morals have changed so dramatically since the dawn of the sexual revolution. My Great Grandmother was from the Highlands and she left her drunken, wife beating husband and ran off to Morpeth with her 4 daughters. Shock horror. She spent the remainder of her life saying she was a widow because of the shame of being divorced. Now I am not advocating that attitude but that is rather a short space in time to go from no babies out of wedlock to lets sleep around and accept that our kids do too.

The statistic was averaged 'since' the doomsday book. I do not think morals or practices have changed much. Just the deception and the denial has eroded. I am not judging it either way just saying that the only thing that has really changed is that today its not hidden.