Repent or Resign?

Jack Halyard · 05-11-2005, 09:07 PM

I'm sure that some, and possibly most of you are familiar with the recent happenings at the East Waynesville Baptist Church in North Carolina. If you are not familiar with the story, it concerns preaching politics from the pulpit.

Here is a link relating the story.
http://www.citizen-times.com/apps/pbcs.dll/frontpage

I was curious as to everyone's opinion on this subject.

KnightoftheRose · 05-11-2005, 09:51 PM

I related the story to my dad.

His first impression was that the whole thing was a petty power struggle within the church.

But, with our media, we'll never know.

Awaiting_the_fifth · 05-12-2005, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Another man who got excommunicated said that the rest of the congregation stood up and applauded as the Democrats were told to leave

What is wrong with these people.

I, Brian · 05-12-2005, 11:18 PM

Well, I guess politics and religion sometimes inevitably come together.

It is just a tad outrageous for a church to demand control of voting rights in its congregation, but it's hard not to see the poor folk feeling they were doing what was right.

Somehow I can't help but read it as a sort of comic-tragedy.

path_of_one · 05-13-2005, 01:42 AM

That is just sad, in my opinion. They all need to read the "God is not a Republican or a Democrat" article that circulated through Sojourners around the last election time. I get so sick of the right-wing rhetoric that I have to be a certain party politically to be a "real" Christian.

After all, I'm not telling my Republican Christian friends that they're not "real" Christians. It's depressing when what should be one's personal relationship with God becomes some kind of ground for petty squabbling over social identities and power.

InLove · 05-13-2005, 05:02 AM

Hi J.H.

As you know, it is very difficult for me to continue serving God in places that are so inclined to turn His house into a political stage. I know that God knows me, and that is all that matters, but wouldn't some folks be surprised if I talked back about faith when they talked politics?

I just can't understand why this is happening--wait, no--I understand why, I just am saddened by it.

InLove,
InPeace

Faithfulservant · 05-13-2005, 10:01 AM

actually after reading all the articles and letters to the editor Im siding with the underdog on this one.

Awaiting_the_fifth · 05-13-2005, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faithfulservant

actually after reading all the articles and letters to the editor Im siding with the underdog on this one.

Are you saying you are on the side of the pastor who is ex-communicating democrats?

InLove · 05-13-2005, 03:03 PM

Here's what bugs me about this story--This man wants to be protected under the premise of freedom of speech from his pulpit, but denies to those in the pews their freedom to express themselves through the voting process.

And here I will just editorialize a second--this is my viewpoint, and I can't say so out loud where I attend church. I doubt that anyone would ask me to leave, but it would have consequences, and it would be detrimental to my ability to effectively serve in the ministries in which I am currently involved. But I can say it freely here: Inasmuch as God has given me free will, and considering that societies at their noblest seek to do the same as much as possible, then if the pastor of a church wants to start his own church of George Bush or the Republican Party, or John Kerry, or the Democratic Party, or build a temple to Ralph Nader--let him go and do so. But don't presume to come into an existing church and take the message of the Gospel away and replace it with the message of Caesar. By the way, there are many pro-life Democrats, and pro-choice means just that--pro-choice. Many pro-choicers are working within their churches to minister to women who feel they have no other avenue but abortion--I have personally seen the message of Love--not politics--persuade these women not to do this harm to the unborn.

InLove

Faithfulservant · 05-13-2005, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Awaiting_the_fifth

Are you saying you are on the side of the pastor who is ex-communicating democrats?

I believe there is more to the story than what the media says.. after reading everything I found that there were republicans that were ex-communicated and there were democrats that voted the 9 off.. I choose to take everything I read from the media with a grain of salt. Reasons for ex-communication would be anyone that causes divisiveness within the church which I believe is the case here. That is also the reason for the Pastors resignation because he knew that staying could cause the death of that church and biblically his decision is correct.

I, Brian · 05-14-2005, 12:05 AM

So there was a political split already present, with people being forced out due to political opinion in the first place?

Awaiting_the_fifth · 05-14-2005, 10:00 AM

Faithfulservant

I cannot begin to understand how you can condone excommunication on the basis of political disagreement (especially republican or democrat who are very similar anyway).

If you think a man is wrong in his beliefs you should help him see the truth, isnt this the Christian way? Jesus did not condem the Tax Collector, he had luch with him. To ex-communicate anyone is to turn your back on him. How can this be right?

Also

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faithfulservant

Reasons for ex-communication would be anyone that causes divisiveness within the church

Surely this would be the induviduals who used their strong political opinions to make judgements about others.

Faithfulservant · 05-14-2005, 11:24 AM

Im hesitant to post scripture here but since the subject is about a Christian church im going to.

Titus 3:9-10 But avoid foolish disputes, genealogies, contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and useless. Reject a divisive man after the first and second admonition,

Like I said I believe that the 9 were disrupting the church and causing division.. there are other means of dealing with a Pastor that are biblical.

1 Ti 5:19 Do not receive an accusation against an elder except from two or three witnesses.

There are chains of command even in churches everyone is answerable to someone.

If these people were upset with something the Pastor said the thing to do would be to take it to his bosses... They did not do that. I believe they were griping and moaning to other members of the congregation causing division and were warned about it... disregarding the warnings would give a reason for ex-communicating. Then when that happened they called in the media and the advocate groups and whammo.. we have a big mess and the church is in even more danger so what does the Pastor do? He resigns.. which is biblical because the church is whats important.. not his job and not his need to save face.

I dont care what he said to anger these 9 people. He is answerable to God. These 9 people could have left the church without a fuss but they didnt do that.

I believe that some of you are making the mistake of reading an article and getting one side of story and passing judgement. This man is human much like you and I. Rather than fan the flames and rant and rave about injustice.. try looking at him as a human being with all its flaws and use some deductive reasoning to piece the story together.

A man doesnt go to school to recieve his pastoral degree and just get a job at a church.. he is interviewed and assessed and he has to answer to someone. He is responsible for many aspects of the church and there are rules just like having a job as a supervisor in a regular job.. the only difference is that his job is defined in the new testament.

Awaiting_the_fifth · 05-14-2005, 06:50 PM

I accept what you are saying but I cannot get away from the fact that to tell a man that he is wrong and demand that he leave your church because of it is crazy. It is the 'Tax Collectors' that needed the pastor's (and the other parishoners') help most of all.

I, Brian · 05-14-2005, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faithfulservant

Im hesitant to post scripture here but since the subject is about a Christian church im going to.

Nothing wrong at all - the only time it might be an issue is when be used as a statement against other people's faith, on non-Christian faith boards. This particular topic is about a Christian chruch anyway, so it would be difficult to justify any reason to disallow mention scripture.

It also seems that what you're saying is that there were deeper issues of disruption at the church on political grounds, and that the preacher attempting to remove a number was primarily on the grounds of their past behaviour, and that these people also just happened to share a particular political affiliation?