Revelation, are you ready?

[mee]

Originally Posted by Bandit

from what i can see, Jesus has been on the throne since he ascended into heaven & the kingdom has been, being established since then. Not starting in 1914.

Jesus’ ascension to heaven and his reappearance in the heavenly presence of Jehovah God did not bring the Gentile Times to an end, but God kept to His time schedule, looking forward to 1914. Jesus Christ had to wait, just as the inspired Bible writer of Hebrews 10:12, 13 tells us, saying: "This man offered one sacrifice for sins perpetually and sat down at the right hand of God, from then on AWAITING until his enemies should be placed as a stool for his feet." This is a reference to Psalm 110:1, 2, where King David said prophetically concerning the coming Messiah or Christ: "The utterance of Jehovah to my Lord is: ‘Sit at my right hand until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet.’ The rod of your strength Jehovah will send out of Zion, saying: ‘Go subduing in the midst of your enemies.’"

God’s appointed time for the Lord Jesus Christ to start doing this was at the end of the Gentile Times in 1914, and it was until that momentous date that he was awaiting while seated at God’s right hand on the heavenly throne. That date 1914 was the time for the tables to be turned, the time for him as installed king to go subduing in the midst of his enemies rather than for the Gentiles to continue trampling on God’s Messianic kingdom.

Can there be any question that the heavenly kingdom of God by means of his anointed one or Messiah, Christ, was born and came to power at the end of the Gentile Times in early autumn of 1914?

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by mee

Jesus’ ascension to heaven and his reappearance in the heavenly presence of Jehovah God did not bring the Gentile Times to an end, but God kept to His time schedule, looking forward to 1914. Jesus Christ had to wait, just as the inspired Bible writer of Hebrews 10:12, 13 tells us, saying: "This man offered one sacrifice for sins perpetually and sat down at the right hand of God, from then on AWAITING until his enemies should be placed as a stool for his feet." This is a reference to Psalm 110:1, 2, where King David said prophetically concerning the coming Messiah or Christ: "The utterance of Jehovah to my Lord is: ‘Sit at my right hand until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet.’ The rod of your strength Jehovah will send out of Zion, saying: ‘Go subduing in the midst of your enemies.’"

God’s appointed time for the Lord Jesus Christ to start doing this was at the end of the Gentile Times in 1914, and it was until that momentous date that he was awaiting while seated at God’s right hand on the heavenly throne. That date 1914 was the time for the tables to be turned, the time for him as installed king to go subduing in the midst of his enemies rather than for the Gentiles to continue trampling on God’s Messianic kingdom.

Can there be any question that the heavenly kingdom of God by means of his anointed one or Messiah, Christ, was born and came to power at the end of the Gentile Times in early autumn of 1914?

No, that is not scripture based. In fact that is coming very close to attempting to convert others to a particular way of thinking instead of discussing the biblical scripture based on its own merit. This will stop, please.

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[Abogado del Diablo]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

No, that is not scripture based. In fact that is coming very close to attempting to convert others to a particular way of thinking instead of discussing the biblical scripture based on its own merit. This will stop, please.

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Why is "scripture-based" the standard? Can't the flock recognize the shepherd's voice?

More importantly, who decides what is "scripture?"

[Knowledge]

What is the book of Revelation?

The Last book of the Bible. It continues where the book of Daniel left off, and goes futher, from this present age, to Eternity.

Who is the author?

Though it was penned down by John, it was authored God. This is the case with all 66 books of Scripture.

What does the book mean? Is it the end of the world? Is it the beginning of a new one? Where does Revelation fit in your life?

The book is Jesus' testimony of things to come. It deals with this present age, the climax of the the world system, and the return of Jesus.

Where do you fit in Revelation?

I believe we're in the time just before the Rapture of the Chruch, and the Tribulation Period. Those left behind in the Tribulation will face a world that is without the presence of God. The world governments will merge, and so will religion. Tolerance will be in, and Jesus will be out. There will be many wars, and a burst of technological advancements, which will used to enslave humanity.

Do you believe in Revelation literally?

When taken in content, God's words -- The Bible is Literal!

Do you think that it is mandated (destiny)? Is there hope, or is all lost, and it is merely a matter of time?

For those in Jesus, there is hope. Remember what the Bible says, "We are in this world, but not of it. We are the salt and light of the earth, and we're here to tell the world the truth, in the hopes that they too may be saved!

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by Abogado del Diablo

Why is "scripture-based" the standard? Can't the flock recognize the shepherd's voice?

More importantly, who decides what is "scripture?"

Greetings All,

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[Faithfulservant]

Mee if I could redirect you to post #33 of this thread.. could you answer my question on who you believe Gods people are? and who do you believe Gog Magog, Tubal and Mesech are? you veered off in another direction and I am interested in who the writers of the watchtower handbooks tell you they are.

[mee]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

No, that is not scripture based. In fact that is coming very close to attempting to convert others to a particular way of thinking instead of discussing the biblical scripture based on its own merit. This will stop, please.

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why is it not scripture based

[mee]

[QUOTE=Faithfulservant]Mee if I could redirect you to post #33 of this thread.. could you answer my question on who you believe Gods people are? and who do you believe Gog Magog, Tubal and Mesech are? you veered off in another direction and I am interested in who the writers of the watchtower handbooks tell you they are.[/QUO

The Bible tells us that "God is love." In harmony with this, Jesus showed that the most outstanding mark of those who follow his example in worshiping God is that they would have love among themselves. He said: "By this all will know that you are my disciples, if you have love among yourselves." (1 John 4:8; John 13:35) so i supose it is up to each and every one of us to find that out for ourselves .based on what Gods word the bible says all will know because of there fruits .

The prophet Ezekiel foresaw the final battle of God against man’s governments. In chapters 38 and 39 of his book, he describes God’s war against "Gog of the land of Magog." (Ezekiel 38:2) This is widely recognized as a prophecy of the last days. A careful study of the Scriptures reveals that here "Gog" is a symbolic name for that same spirit rebel, Satan, who led Adam and Eve in a course of disobedience to God.

[I, Brian]

Originally Posted by mee

why is it not scripture based

It's okay - false alarm - let's continue the thread.

[Faithfulservant]

The prophet Ezekiel foresaw the final battle of God against man’s governments. In chapters 38 and 39 of his book, he describes God’s war against "Gog of the land of Magog." (Ezekiel 38:2) This is widely recognized as a prophecy of the last days. A careful study of the Scriptures reveals that here "Gog" is a symbolic name for that same spirit rebel, Satan, who led Adam and Eve in a course of disobedience to God.

Ok.. So what does genesis chapter 10 mean then? It plainly speaks of who those people are.

Also, careful study of the scriptures in Revelation show that Satan is "the dragon"

[truthseeker]

Evidently, these discussions can't always be flowery. But I will try to be as respectful as I can.

A careful study of what scriptures? The New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures? So now the King James version isn't sufficient? To whom?
To be in the world but not of the world could, very well, also mean that we are not just flesh and blood but of spirit being also. Alienating yourself to claim that the only truth is your own interpretation of the word of God can be a dangerous thing to soul and perspective. It is destructive and everybody ain't with disregarding the rest of humankind just to seek acceptance and pride among themselves and then attribute it in the name of Jesus. Why isn't anybody else picking up on this information but the Jehovah's Witnesses? Does the Vatican know too or is the information exclusive? Wasn't Jesus supposed to come back in 1914? Then in 1975? So now that you've figured out that he wasn't supposed to return to earth in 1914 but that he was supposed to take the throne instead, have you figured out another 'return to earth' date?

[Dor]

Hmm 1914? Seems to have came up a few times so I decided to look into that number with regards to JWs.

It is the date when, according to the Jehovah's Witnesses, the time of the Gentiles ended (Watchtower, 5/1/93, page 11) and "Jesus-the heavenly warrior Michael-became King of God's heavenly Kingdom," (Watchtower 11/1/93, page 23).

Too arrive at this date that take the account in Daniel 4 and use a 360 day yr for each of the 7 "times" for a total of 2520 yrs. Add that date to 607 B.C. there date for the fall of Jerusalem and arrive at 1914 A.D.
This marked time began in the year 1914 (A.D.). In that important year the 'appointed times of the nations,' 2,520 years long, ran out. If we measure back that many years from 1914 we come to the ancient date of 607 B.C. That year was marked for the overthrow of the earthly "throne of Jehovah" and for the destruction of the throne city of Jerusalem and its sanctuary and for the total desolation of the land of the kingdom of Judah." (From the Book, "Your Will," 1958, pp. 309-310, Watchtower CD, emphasis added).

But was 607 B.C. the correct date when Jerusalem fell? Well no it wasn't. No Bible scholar and no archaeological scholar holds to that date. The correct date is 586 B.C., not 607 B.C.

"The true prophet Jeremiah, not the false prophets, was vindicated when Jerusalem was razed by Babylonian soldiers in 607 B.C.E., the temple destroyed, and the populace either killed or dragged away captive to distant Babylon. The pitiful few that were left in the land fled into Egypt.-Jeremiah 39:6-9; 43:4-7," (Watchtower 2/1/92, page 4).
"In 607 B.C.E., Israel was taken into captivity for 70 years," (Watchtower 4/15/92, page 10)
"Samaria fell to the Assyrians in 740 B.C.E., and Jerusalem and its temple were destroyed by the Babylonians in 607 B.C.E," (Watchtower, 11/1/92, page 13).
So we see they do claim the 607 B.C. as the fall of Jerusalem.


According to Encyclopedia.com, the Babylonian captivity, is defined as "the period from the fall of Jerusalem (586 B.C.) to the reconstruction in Palestine of a new Jewish state (after 538 B.C.)."

"You will recall that the Babylonians, under Nebuchadnezzar, after twice laying siege to Jerusalem, finally captured it in 586 B.C.E. Nebuchadnezzar's army then pillaged the city, destroying the Temple and sending the inhabitants off to exile in Babylonia.("Biblical Archaeological Review, Biblical Archaelogical Review).

"...Nebuchadnezzar promptly invaded his unhappy country and besieged Jerusalem for a year and a half. In 587 Jerusalem fell and numbers of its inhabitants were carried away captive to Babylonia..." (Unger, Merrill, F., Unger's Bible Dictionary, Moody Press, Chicago, 1966, page 782).

• Notice that the year 587 is offered instead of 586. There is sometimes a difference of opinion as to which year is the exact one. Nevertheless, it is obvious that 607 B.C. is not even close.

"586, Jerusalem destroyed and burned (Jer. 52:13f.); people taken captive (52:28-30). (The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia, Eerdmans, Grand Rapids, Michigan, 1982, page 1016)

If they are wrong about such a basic event and have not changed their error to match historical fact, how can they be trusted to represent biblical truth?

They can not change their date of 1914 because they have so much invested in it. If they admitted they were wrong it would undermine the whole credibility and truth of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society.

[Faithfulservant]

I was reading about this also here http://www.towerwatch.com/Witnesses/...prophecies.htm

I have to say it concerns me that there are so many failed prophecies of the end times by them and it brings to my mind the warnings in the bible of false prophets.

[truthseeker]

But you know, right now we sound like the people that ridiculed Abraham when he was building the ark.

So is the Watchtower and Bible Tract Society an organization of bible scholars? I'm asking because, well, since The New World Translation is different from mine I'm interested in knowing where the information comes from. Everytime new information comes up, is the Bible updated?

[didymus]

You mean Noah?? Couldn't resist. Wait a minute did Abraham build an ark too?