Salvation not restricted to Christains

[juantoo3]

Kindest Regards, wil!

Originally Posted by wil

er...this is exactly the quotes being discussed...on his left identified as goats are anyone who has done anything similar to this...TO ANY PERSON for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’

You guys are obviously all saints if you don't see yourselves as goats in Jesus's words. I must admit, I have not provided food to everyone I found hungry, brought every stranger into my house, provided clothing for all those who needed it, nor ministered to those in prison.

You emphasized the IT, and the fact that if you've passed up helping anyone, you passed up helping the Christ.

Even Mother Theresa couldn't help everybody. You raise a good point, certainly I could do more. But I think it is self-defeating to think we can save every needy individual that happens to cross our path. Jaded me, I will go so far as to make the comment that not all that appear needy truly are. Yet, are we to give all our worldly possessions to assist others?...others that are only too happy to have one's belongings to add to their growing collection? Where is the common sense line to be drawn? Do we give our whole paycheck, presuming we can live without a car, a house, food and clothes? (nevermind the cell phone, computer and television!) Do we live our lives in rags and hungry so we can hand over our paycheck to those who are effectively ungrateful? (who would hire us or keep us on a job in such a state of being?)

I have long said I am willing to assist anybody trying to assist themselves. I see no charitable need to give my hard earned money to a panhandler to support a drug or alcohol habit. I will feed the hungry, if I am aware they are truly hungry, but I will not give money to someone simply because they say they are hungry. Ever offer food to a panhandler who claims to be hungry? Watch how quickly things change..."oh no man, I want the money to buy a hamburger." "OK, let me take you to get a hamburger." "Oh no man, how can I trust you?" "OK, I will go buy you a burger." "No man, just gimme the money..."

I've seen it enough to know it goes on. Some people who appear to be "needy" are that way by choice, and who am I to deny their choice? I will not enable their self-destruction, they will have to find another means.

The irony is, a genuinely needy person who is trying to help themselves and could really use a hand-up (not hand-out), generally tries to hide the fact they could use a little assist. Sometimes you gotta look for them, the ones that truly need. If it is your place to assist, G-d will make it known, in no uncertain terms.

[AndrewX]

Prober, serpents have long been symbols of Wisdom. Just ask any Chinaman ...
(You do realize I'm quite serious, yes? )

Here is a moderate-length Wiki article on the Serpent - and religious/mythological symbolism.

Also, ever notice the Staff of Hermes, the Caduceus, on medical buildings? Medicine - a good thing, yes? (ah well, usually so)

If you read the Wiki article, please do not fail to note the part at the bottom about `Political propaganda.' For me, that speaks volumes!

Namaskar,

andrew

[pattimax]

Originally Posted by juantoo3

Hey, K!


Thanks for the article! .... Indeed, I find the Chinese by and large to be even more polite than most westerners.

Nice save.

[cyberpi]

Originally Posted by wil

er...this is exactly the quotes being discussed...on his left identified as goats are anyone who has done anything similar to this...TO ANY PERSON for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’

You guys are obviously all saints if you don't see yourselves as goats in Jesus's words. I must admit, I have not provided food to everyone I found hungry, brought every stranger into my house, provided clothing for all those who needed it, nor ministered to those in prison.

You emphasized the IT, and the fact that if you've passed up helping anyone, you passed up helping the Christ.

Food and drink mean more than food and drink. Judgment and employment? Word and Service? As I say, the preacher twisted 'judge' and 'condemn' into one knot and thus teaches apathy. I wish him to become wiser than a serpent, and yet remain harmless as a dove. Becoming a slave to the sins of another is not very wise.

I did listen as he quoted the , (John 8:7) "... He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her." and the "speck in eye, plank in eye". Is a stone good food? Does a person learn from it? I bet she loved the words of judgment she received instead of the stones that would have condemned (killed) her.

[Dondi]

Originally Posted by juantoo3

It is well that Christianity is able to make some inroads, yet that does not mean Christianity is the only way back to our Creator. I don't think G-d created 2 billion Chinese to be firewood for hell, especially when the typical Chinese person has the same hopes and dreams, ideals and morality, that any Christian worth the title has. Indeed, I find the Chinese by and large to be even more polite than most westerners.

We had a visiting pastor from a large church who regaled how they have started a Christian School/College in China. Instead if sending one or two missionaries, they sent a group of 30 volunteers made up of teachers and missionary worker, all salaried in full (paid by the church missionary funds in a conglomerate with other megachurches) during the time they serve over there (usually an average of two years). Having a large group like this allow an easier turnover of people for people who need to go on furlough or other emergencies back home, in which case they will sent someone else to take their place. This is quite unlike the single missionary who may toil for years and years to establish a church and find themselves taxed into exhaustion, only to find when they go on furlough their ministry suffers. But the missionary group will always have fresh workers to keep things running smoothly.

What's neat about this idea, and it is becoming more popular in places like China, it that the Chinese authorities don't really care what is taught in the Christian school as long as it teaches English to the Chinese students. This gives great latitude in spreading the gospel during the course of study and many have come to Christ as a result. I hope and pray that these kind of lights of hope will become a trend there.

[wil]

Namaste Juan and Cyberpi,

No I realize Mother Theresa couldn't help everyone...and we also would have issues trying...

I just think it worthy to see our goatness as Jesus described. And yes drink and food don't always mean drink and food, but far be it from me to indicate that to a literalist who considers that one a goat and this one a sheep.

By Jesus's words just indicating someone is a goat is indicating Jesus is a goat. And yes, while we can't physically help everyone, I think what the statement makes is that it is our job not to vent, not to provide ill will on anyone. Love your enemy not only includes the enemy inside but the enemy outside...controlling our thoughts toward others...oh he's just a bum, too lazy to work...oh so and so 'called in' 'back problems' AGAIN...we are all children of G-d, all works in progress...

If we can change our mind about each other, change our perspective, we will begin to change reality.