Salvation not restricted to Christains - Page 2

Prober · 04-13-2007, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pico

"...and they will listen to my voice; and there will be one flock with one shepherd."

Whatever sheep He calls, they are ones that hear His voice and are His sheep. (imo) Whatever people make it to Heaven will be following Jesus so will it make that much difference if they're called "Christians" or "Jesus Followers"?

Dondi · 04-13-2007, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prober

Does G-d value our need for Jesus' sacrifice?
I don't know how to answer that.

See, you're pulling it out of context. I wasn't asking if God values our need for Jesus' sacrifice. I was making a comparision.

Think of your answer in relation to this verse that I quoted:

"And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbour as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices."

Prober · 04-13-2007, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dondi

See, you're pulling it out of context. I wasn't asking if God values our need for Jesus' sacrifice. I was making a comparision.

Think of your answer in relation to this verse that I quoted:

"And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbour as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices."

Oh, sorry! I've been accused of over-thinking things sometimes.

Um, the verse seems to agree with you. I wonder if it's talking about only burnt offerings and (burnt) sacrifices...

To love G-d is certainly a better offering than these sacrifices.

I don't think it's a better offering than Jesus' sacrifice, though (I may be wrong).

What are your thoughts here?

Faithfulservant · 04-13-2007, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndrewX

From yourself/selves, if you did not otherwise seek to be holy (righteous). You don't have to define yourself/selves, or think of being "set apart" - relative to other people.

As a good friend of mine in college used to say, challenge yourself - and Win!

Silly Andrew

I wasnt meaning the Englsh word Holy I meant the Hebrew word Holy which is used in the bible..

Qadowsh = sacred, holy, Holy One, saint, set apart

according to scripture we ARE set apart.

pattimax · 04-13-2007, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dondi

... but values our love for Him and our neighbor more than our need for Jesus' sacrifice.

Can you have one without the other?

AndrewX · 04-13-2007, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faithfulservant

according to scripture we ARE set apart.

Ok, but by virtue of what? What is it that brings this about?

That was my point ...

- and my answer? Thought, word and deed.

Acta virum probant (Actions prove the man)

lunamoth · 04-13-2007, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas

There is evidence in the Old Testament and new that God is God of the whole world, not just the Jews...

... and dare I say it, but a god who says, 'I'll look after you, but the rest, no matter how good they are, can go hang,' is not worth much in my book.

+++

However, there is evidence in the Old Testament and the New that God called a people to Himself for a singular purpose, and in short how they should be is summed up in the Shema Israel, and what they should do is summed up in the commission given to the Apostles at the end of the Gospels.

+++

I would suggest, in that sense, we are not here for God, nor for ourselves, but for the world, we are here as witness to the Word, that the world might know of God as we know Him, as has been made known to us – for without His Church, who will pass on His Name?

+++

And His name is Love.
+++

Thomas

And this is exactly it Thomas. All members of the Church, of the Body of Christ, are ministers with the mission of reconciliation of the world, in the name of Christ. But as I said in another thread recently, what does that look like? Earl reminded us of St. Francis' instruction: preach the Gospel constantly, using words if necessary.

Prober · 04-13-2007, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lunamoth

Earl reminded us of St. Francis' instruction: preach the Gospel constantly, using words if necessary.

This I like...thanks Earl and Luna.

Dondi · 04-13-2007, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pattimax

Can you have one without the other?

Depends if you can fulfill the law of love or not. What do you think?

Faithfulservant · 04-13-2007, 08:18 PM

I beg to differ...

our every thought word and deed cannot touch the righteousness and holiness of God. We are only made righteous (holy) and set apart (holy) by the blood of the lamb, Jesus Christ. If one isnt born from above or washed in the blood of the lamb one will not see eternal life they will only see hell and destruction.

Matthew 7:13-14 "Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.

There are a few and there are a many.

pattimax · 04-13-2007, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dondi

Depends if you can fulfill the law of love or not. What do you think?

I thought part of fulfilling the law of love is realizing that you need Jesus and you cannot do without him, knowing what he has done for you and why. Therefore, you love him with all of your heart, soul, and mind, and of course, you love your neighbor as yourself.

Faithfulservant · 04-13-2007, 09:24 PM

He also said that there is no greater love than laying your life down for your friends. The love Jesus Christ has for us is humbling.

pattimax · 04-13-2007, 09:57 PM

Hi D-

Thanks, I was anwering #20.

Karen

wil · 04-13-2007, 10:03 PM

Corinthians 5....it appears to me Christ died for EVERYONE'S sins, whether they know it, care about it, or not.

Quote:

16 Therefore, from now on, we regard no one according to the flesh. Even though we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know Him thus no longer. 17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new. 18 Now all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconciliation, 19 that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation.
20 Now then, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were pleading through us: we implore you on Christ’s behalf, be reconciled to God. 21 For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

and later in 15:22 "as all die in Adam, so all will be made alive in Christ"

And Matthew 5:24 leave your gift there before the altar, and go your way. First be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift.

We must all be reconciled with our brothers....all of humanity, before we are to offer ourselves to G-d...

So as I see it, not only is salvation not restricted to Christians, but unless we accept that fact...it isn't offered to us

pattimax · 04-13-2007, 10:08 PM

! Corinthians 5:17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.