Salvation not restricted to Christains

[wil]

Originally Posted by wil

Corinthians 5....it appears to me Christ died for EVERYONE'S sins, whether they know it, care about it, or not. and later in 15:22 "as all die in Adam, so all will be made alive in Christ"

Originally Posted by pattimax

! Corinthians 5:17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.

Originally Posted by Faithfulservant

I agree He died for everyones sins.. the crux of the situation is that you have to repent before you get the forgiveness... you arent forgiven without it.. We dont get out of it that easy. Its just like humanity to want the most yet try to give the least.. Isnt it awesome that we have a God that understands us.

The verses you are quoting are for believers.. they dont apply to non-believers. Im not meaning to sound harsh. really.

How do we ignore reconciling with our brothers before we see G-d...is "your going to hell because you won't listen to me", reconciliation in G-d's eyes? in anyone's?

If they were for everyone than His dying was for nothing.

I would like to add that righeousness is doing what is right.. what is right? Gods word. So.. Gods word is righteous.. and we are righteous when we follow Gods word..[/quote] There are so many of G-ds words...and they are contradictory...since when does all not mean all. Yes I agree we need to live righteous lives, yes I agree we need to give up our sinful ways (repent) to receive forgiveness. Yes I agree in one place it implies that we need to accept Jesus...but in another G-d says all. So all who repent, all who decide to be righteous...

I get beat up regularly for ignoring scripture...how can you ignore the word all. It doesn't say all believers, it says all.

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by Prober

Okay, so to simplify...(Matthew 25)

Sheep love their neighbors as themselves and Goats don't.

Sheep (whether Ewes or Rams) are of a flock and stick together, and listen to the shepard. Goats are a different animal all together. They do not like sheep, and they can cause serious damage, when put together with sheep. Rams can kill a goat, Ewes are not so fortunate at having that strength.

Rams can kill a wolf, but only if several Rams are present...

Now does it make sense?

[AndrewX]

Originally Posted by lunamoth

Hi Andrew,

I think you missed the point of why I posted that, but nevermind. And next time you make a rhetorical statement like the above underlined, don't put an answer in my mouth for me.

For the record, it's not what Jesus taught, but what Jesus did.

luna

Didn't mean to attribute this rhetorical statement to you alone, luna ... just trying to show that many Christians do see Salvation as an "all-or-none" kind of thing. It's not seen a process, or a gradual awakening, or a PATH. Instead, it is made into a "one time deal," either you "are" or "aren't."

As Joshua says, what comes "after" still matters ... yet there is some kind of magical, pivotal moment - and this, to me, isn't Salvation at all.

It really doesn't matter what I believe, though, now does it?


And Joshua, one need not look into the Holy Bible to see God's Truth. If one cannot see it in the stars, in the CONSTELLATIONS, which God ordered in the Heavens ... then I hardly think one is qualified to slap one's hand on the Bible, and say "HERE is God's word, and astrology isn't anywhere IN IT!"

BTW, you're dead wrong on that count. They were these guys called "The MAGI" - and they were ASTROLOGERS ... and astrology figures EVERYWHERE in the Hebrew Old Testament, AS WELL AS in the bridging, or transition time, into the NEW. It's where you get the Slaughter of Innocents, from ...

... and the Golden Calf is kinda prominent in there, too - as was the Lamb (even "The Lamb slain from the FOUNDATION of the world" - well, as every ESOTERICIST, yet not every Christian, knows ... Aries marks the BEGINNING of all cycles - thus the FOUNDATION of any, and every, Creation, when considering the Zodiac).

As for Pisces, the fishes, REMEMBER, this is ASTRONOMY every bit as much as it is ASTROLOGY, for not until quite, quite recently (as in, a handful of decades), did science DIVIDE these two disciplines ... and the medieval astronomers were as much astrologers as were the Persian MAGI.

A STAR foretold Christ's birth ...

... and the Water-Bearer, referenced CLEARLY in Mark 14:13-14, is AS ASTROLOGICAL as one can get!!!

YOU may wish to interpret these another way, and I will not dispute that Christianity does not present all of this in a straightforward and clear manner. YEP! You got me there!!!

[Prober]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Now does it make sense?

Yes, perfect.

Curious...Why do goats dislike sheep?

[pattimax]

Originally Posted by wil

Gods word. So.. Gods word is righteous.. and we are righteous when we follow Gods word..

There are so many of G-ds words...and they are contradictory...since when does all not mean all.

I get beat up regularly for ignoring scripture...how can you ignore the word all. It doesn't say all believers, it says all.[/quote]
I know you are not ignoring scripture. Please do not ignore the last verse in the bible.

The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.
Revelation 22:21 NKJV

The world is not done yet.

[Prober]

"Even so, come Lord Jesus"

[AndrewX]

[Prober]

Cool...what's the rest like?

[AndrewX]

Originally Posted by Prober

Cool...what's the rest like?

I kind of don't know. I don't have the musical aptitude or understanding to answer. There are several parts, but one (or two) are just Veni Sancte Spiritus, repeated over and over. This is Taize, and information can be found here.

I know it from singing the simple Veni Sancte Spiritus refrain ... and also, Come Holy Spirit. But there is a beautiful soprano, or maybe alto, part. Or perhaps it's called something else - I'm musically illiterate (err, I can amost read music, but that's as far as it goes). Can't hold a tune in a bucket ...

Anyway, if you have Winamp, or something that can play an .ogg file, try this link for a sample.

The piece is contextual for me. It brings back wonderful memories, and the voice - and face - of something very quite beautiful. Taize is often sung in rounds, and the group I was in would number anywhere from four or five, to 10 or 15. While the Latin is beautiful unto itself (and some pieces are German, and in other languages), it's also an opportunity to forget the lyrics, and harmonize, and lose track of the outer ... in the inner.

It's a metaphor, and it's also a really neat tradition ...

~peace

[Faithfulservant]

The Lord never contradicts Himself. If theres any mistake made.. you can be sure Man is at fault.

[Faithfulservant]

Originally Posted by Prober

"Even so, come Lord Jesus"

Maranatha!

Might I add

HE is RISEN!

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by Prober

Yes, perfect.

Curious...Why do goats dislike sheep?

Could be that one is independent and the other has a flock mentality. Or it could be that goats have about 50 points less than sheep on the IQ level (seriously). They can breed, but most times the offspring are sterile (an exception to the rule is called a Chimera).

Goats and Sheep, same genus, different species. (like horse and donkey)

[mee]

Originally Posted by Faithfulservant

John 14:6 "I am the way the truth and the life... NO ONE comes to the Father except THROUGH ME."

very true indeed

[mee]

Originally Posted by Faithfulservant

We are called to be holy.. being holy means to be set apart...If everyone is saved regardless of their faith...who are we set apart from?

the world and its ways .

[mee]

[quote=Faithfulservant;99738]Then.. who are the goats? quote]
only Jehovah and Jesus chist know who the goats are. and that will be at the judgement