Salvation not restricted to Christains

[cyberpi]

Originally Posted by Dondi

"Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good." - Romans 7:12

Yes, I did see that before my first post. A letter from Paul to the Romans. I would consider that shows the Bible is NOT Holy if I my assertment is correct. Thank you!

Originally Posted by Q

You said, "where did God call the commandments Holy? He did not". I just proved you in doubt of your own statement.

It seems like you are trying to prove the statement. The commandment is to keep the Sabbath Holy... NOT a Holy commandment is to keep the Sabbath.

Matthew 12:8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the Sabbath day.

I am not teaching to belittle law or commandments... in an information age of rapidly changing language where people blow themselves up and call it martyrdom, I am drawing attention to what is Holy by recognizing what is not.

[Faithfulservant]

Originally Posted by Prober

So, if they're holy, shouldn't we keep all of these commandments?

Uh oh is this a legalism conversation??

[Prober]

Originally Posted by Faithfulservant

Uh oh is this a legalism conversation??

It's creeping that way, huh.

I just think if G-d said to do something and called it holy, we should do it.

(puts Sabbath hammer back into bag)

Anyway, only good thoughts!

[Dondi]

Yes, I did see that before my first post. A letter from Paul to the Romans. I would consider that shows the Bible is NOT Holy if I my assertment is correct. Thank you!

What is your definition of Holy?

Would you say that obeying the commandments are what makes one holy?

[cyberpi]

Originally Posted by Faithfulservant

Uh oh is this a legalism conversation??

Is the name "Christ" kept Holy or is it degraded by those individuals who pronounce themselves "Christ like" with the name "Christian"... to make themselves appear more Holy than the rest?

Originally Posted by Dondi

What is your definition of Holy?

I seek God's definition.

[Dondi]

Originally Posted by cyberpi

I seek God's definition.

That's a bit evasive, isn't it?

[cyberpi]

Originally Posted by Dondi

That's a bit evasive, isn't it?

From God, or from Christians who teach that a Law of Love is to Love only Love with Love, nothing but a heart which God writes on but does not really do any work except to ask that something be done for them... and without judgement. I'm not saying thats you, but I am saying collectively that is what I have read in these forums. So with that corrupted definition of Law... I instead seek what is Holy.

[Dondi]

Originally Posted by cyberpi

From God, or from Christians who teach that a Law of Love is to Love only Love with Love, nothing but a heart which God writes on but does not really do any work except to ask that something be done for them. I'm not saying thats you, but I am saying collectively that is what I have read in these forums. So with that corrupted definition of Law... I instead seek what is Holy.

To Love is not to Love with Love, but to Love with the Law. To me the Law represents God's heart. Why else would He give the rules?

The essence of the law can be found in James' estimation of it:

"If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.
For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.
What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone." - James 2:8-17

This is the Law working within the boundaries of Love. Not as some commandment to follow out of compulsion or even a sense of duty to God, but to value it for what it means in the operation of the human heart: compassion, mercy, forgiveness, etc.

[pattimax]

Originally Posted by Dondi

To Love is not to Love with Love, but to Love with the Law. To me the Law represents God's heart. Why else would He give the rules?

The essence of the law can be found in James' estimation of it:

"... Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone." - James 2:8-17

This is the Law working within the boundaries of Love. Not as some commandment to follow out of compulsion or even a sense of duty to God, but to value it for what it means in the operation of the human heart: compassion, mercy, forgiveness, etc.

This is where the beauty of grace comes in.

[lunamoth]

Originally Posted by Dondi

To Love is not to Love with Love, but to Love with the Law. To me the Law represents God's heart. Why else would He give the rules?

The essence of the law can be found in James' estimation of it:

"If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.
For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.
What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone." - James 2:8-17

This is the Law working within the boundaries of Love. Not as some commandment to follow out of compulsion or even a sense of duty to God, but to value it for what it means in the operation of the human heart: compassion, mercy, forgiveness, etc.

Wow Dondi, that is a wonderful way to put it. I'm going to print this one out for frequent contemplation.

Thank you,
luna

[cyberpi]

Thank you Dondi for your viewpoint of an essence of Law... does God call it Holy in the Bible?

Here is another approach: This thread has fewer authors than the Bible... is it Holy? Is this rose garden of a forum Holy? Is this web site Holy? Is the Internet Holy? Would God judge any of them to be Holy?

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by Faithfulservant

Uh oh is this a legalism conversation??

No, Holy is as holy does...not the words written about it. Which brings us back to the original question. Is salvation not restricted to Christians...

I submit one who acts Christ like and lives Christ like, and seeks the grace of God as Christ instructed, would be saved, even though one might not be called "Christian", or know what the term "Christian" meant. It's just a title for a particular way of life and faith.

[AndrewX]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

I submit one who acts Christ like and lives Christ like, and seeks the grace of God as Christ instructed, would be saved, even though one might not be called "Christian", or know what the term "Christian" meant. It's just a title for a particular way of life and faith.

... and that's a smile, beaming toward anyone that fits your description, Q - not me, just standing in the mirror!

[Dondi]

Originally Posted by cyberpi

Thank you Dondi for your viewpoint of an essence of Law... does God call it Holy in the Bible?

Here is another approach: This thread has fewer authors than the Bible... is it Holy? Is this rose garden of a forum Holy? Is this web site Holy? Is the Internet Holy? Would God judge any of them to be Holy?

Why are you hung up with the word Holy? Holiness means being set apart for God. Are you set apart for God? How would you know?

[Prober]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

I submit one who acts Christ like and lives Christ like, and seeks the grace of God as Christ instructed, would be saved, even though one might not be called "Christian", or know what the term "Christian" meant. It's just a title for a particular way of life and faith.

I completely agree. I was trying to make that point, but you've said it better.