Santa Theory

17th Angel · 09-13-2005, 03:08 PM

Doesn't anyone else find it odd...

Christmas time, a time for love and a time to remeber Jesus... But the younger generations what is Christmas time? A time for greed! Presents! Freebies! Santa!!! YAY! Santa is too close to Satan if you ask me.... My theory is Satan, made the Santa 'thing' to make people forget about Christ and love and think more to material objects.... Seems Satan attempts to fool the younger generations and make them forget... Just a quick random thought, throwing it out there, feed back over?

Bandit · 09-13-2005, 03:15 PM

some people see it that way. some churches go on the war path over all that. personally it never had any negative impact on my relationship with God & the bible. i would have felt a little left out if it were not for christmas presents & visiting santa...i mean we get the whole thing figured out by the time we are about 8 or 9 years old & go through the whole "DO YOU BELIEVE IN SANTA" thing. i think a little innocent imagination is a good thing for children.

i am glad i figured out how to refrain from the entire retail thing, considering they will be putting out Christmas decorations in about 2 more weeks. Time for the 12 weeks of Christmas to begin.

17th Angel · 09-13-2005, 03:21 PM

Obviously coming from the background I come from... I have no wish to buy people Christmas presents.... That make me bad Bandit?

Bandit · 09-13-2005, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 17th Angel

Obviously coming from the background I come from... I have no wish to buy people Christmas presents.... That make me bad Bandit?

i dont know. i stopped buying them too, except for a couple of things.
the retail thing has nothing to do with the real Christmas of Jesus. IMO

i think it is more for children & buying them a bunch of gifts, & they think it came from santa. whatever they wish for.
it will be intersting to hear what others here think about it all too.

lunamoth · 09-13-2005, 04:30 PM

I'm with you on this Bandit; Santa is a fun and innocent thing for children. Like most I get dismayed with the rampant materialism that it often promotes these days but I still think it is well within the control of parents to emphasize the giving over the receiving and use it to discuss the gifts that God has given us all, especially in Christ.

my 2 c
lunamoth

I, Brian · 09-13-2005, 04:34 PM

Santa is not about materialism - Santa is the embodiment of Karma in action, where the good receive consequences of good action...

Awaiting_the_fifth · 09-13-2005, 07:57 PM

I dont know whether Santa is good or bad, but I do know one thing, Christmas (as we call it today) has bugger all to do with Jesus!

The date of Christmas was stolen from the Pagans who originally celebrated the winter solstace. When the Christians arrived the festival was twisted into a Christian celebration. Jesus was not born on the 25th of December, Mary did not kiss the Holy Spirit under the miseltoe, Yule logs, Holly, Christmas Trees, present giving, its all Pagan!

This is why it drives me crazy when Christians harp on about ignoring Jesus on Christmas.

If you're a Christian then by all means, have a drink for Jesus, but don't try to spoil it for the rest of us, OK? I'm just in it for the brandy!!

lunamoth · 09-13-2005, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Awaiting_the_fifth

I dont know whether Santa is good or bad, but I do know one thing, Christmas (as we call it today) has bugger all to do with Jesus!

The date of Christmas was stolen from the Pagans who originally celebrated the winter solstace. When the Christians arrived the festival was twisted into a Christian celebration. Jesus was not born on the 25th of December, Mary did not kiss the Holy Spirit under the miseltoe, Yule logs, Holly, Christmas Trees, present giving, its all Pagan!

This is why it drives me crazy when Christians harp on about ignoring Jesus on Christmas.

If you're a Christian then by all means, have a drink for Jesus, but don't try to spoil it for the rest of us, OK? I'm just in it for the brandy!!

LOL Awaiting! Christmas has nothing to do with Jesus? Well, there are at least some Christians out there that might agree with you I guess.

Enjoy your egg nog and don't be a Scrooge.

just teasing,
lunamoth

Bandit · 09-13-2005, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by I, Brian

Santa is not about materialism - Santa is the embodiment of Karma in action, where the good receive consequences of good action...

yes very true. how can you explain that to a 5 year old. LOL

>>>>
he sees you when your sleeping, he knows if you were bad or good
better watch out, better not cry, better not pout, i'm telling you why....Santa is not about toys & candy. you get a lump of coal.

it actually works out for the parents advantage in some ways .

path_of_one · 09-14-2005, 03:53 AM

That song about Santa always sounded a bit scary to me...

Who wants a guy watching them when they're sleeping, knowing all about them, and whatnot?

But seriously, I never had a problem with Santa. I generally detest the materialistic version of him, but my mother taught a belief in Santa as a spirit of giving, as Saint Nicolas exemplified. My sister and I had a "Santa" who brought us one big present each we had longed for during the year, which was very meaningful to us since we were poor. But more than that, "Santa" left us letters about what he had seen us do during that year that made him proud of us. We'd wait in anticipation for those letters at least as much as the gift. He brought gifts until we were out of elementary school, but the letters continued to adulthood. Meanwhile, we were taught that in the spirit of giving, we were to be "Santa" to others, and so we always adopted two kids from orphanages each year for whom to buy small gifts. In that way, Santa never competed with Jesus, though even as a kid, I deeply always felt a tie to the Pagan roots of the Solstice and with more knowledge celebrate with the tree, holly boughs, and mistletoe with greater appreciation. Christmas always was my favorite holiday though, not for the materialism or for the birth of Jesus, but for the bringing of nature into the house, for the gathering of family, and the joy of giving.

lunamoth · 09-14-2005, 04:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by path_of_one

That song about Santa always sounded a bit scary to me...

Who wants a guy watching them when they're sleeping, knowing all about them, and whatnot?

But seriously, I never had a problem with Santa. I generally detest the materialistic version of him, but my mother taught a belief in Santa as a spirit of giving, as Saint Nicolas exemplified. My sister and I had a "Santa" who brought us one big present each we had longed for during the year, which was very meaningful to us since we were poor. But more than that, "Santa" left us letters about what he had seen us do during that year that made him proud of us. We'd wait in anticipation for those letters at least as much as the gift. He brought gifts until we were out of elementary school, but the letters continued to adulthood. Meanwhile, we were taught that in the spirit of giving, we were to be "Santa" to others, and so we always adopted two kids from orphanages each year for whom to buy small gifts. In that way, Santa never competed with Jesus, though even as a kid, I deeply always felt a tie to the Pagan roots of the Solstice and with more knowledge celebrate with the tree, holly boughs, and mistletoe with greater appreciation. Christmas always was my favorite holiday though, not for the materialism or for the birth of Jesus, but for the bringing of nature into the house, for the gathering of family, and the joy of giving.

Wow path of one. Your posts can inspire me even when they are in somewhat silly threads about Santa.

I do believe I will be writing Santa letters to my girls this year. As a family we have "adopted" another family for Christmas in the past, and my older daughter was very invovled in helping me shop for that last year. I also like the idea of one special gift, rather than lots.

cheers,
lunamoth

Bandit · 09-14-2005, 04:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by path_of_one

That song about Santa always sounded a bit scary to me...

Who wants a guy watching them when they're sleeping, knowing all about them, and whatnot?

that is so different from me. i always felt like extra comfort or protection thinking santa was watching. not literally in the room, but some special way & was i glad because i thought he was a good man.
so interesting how different ones see all that.
i remember some kids being scared to death to sit on his lap & talk to him, but i never got that feeling. santa became real when you would go sit on his lap & real when you left the cookies for him to eat. the whole thing is so stupid, but it actually brought a lot of joy to my youth.

then you had the kids who wanted to pull his beard to see if the beard was real.

interesting.

juantoo3 · 09-14-2005, 04:22 PM

Kindest Regards, all!

Oh my!

I see some very insightful posts here! Thanks!

To a degree I agree with Awaiting, Dec 25 is not Jesus' birthday, he was born in late September or early October (the shepherds were still in the fields with their flocks, too cold in December). Most of the trappings of Christmas are Pagan in origin. And Christianity did grab the holiday for itself as part of the "christification" (is that a word?) of the pagan masses of Europe, probably during the reign of Charlemagne.

There is an interesting little passage in Jeremiah regarding this. Let's see if I can find it...Jeremiah 10:2-5; "Thus saith the Lord, Learn not the ways of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not. They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good."

For a long time I resisted the celebration of Christmas, but all around me, and more importantly family and friends, would drag me into it. Lately I have put my focus on "they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good." I take a somewhat neutral position on Christmas.

Perhaps it is a bit of wavering on my part, but the last few years I have gone ahead and participated, albeit in a muted manner. I do like the Christmas tree, and it forms for me a way to honor memories of family and friends. Since Christmas has been co-opted to celebrate the birth of Christ, I keep that in rememberance too.

I do not, however, promote "Santa." Depending where I am at, I will play along so as not to spoil things at a friend's house, but in my own home I will not encourage the teaching of Santa Claus.

I think the lament that worries me most about the season is when people cry about "why can't we have the spirit of Christmas all year long?" To which I find myself replying, "what is stopping you?"

PS, path...great idea about the letters. I'm going to have to remember that this year.

Faithfulservant · 09-14-2005, 05:13 PM

This is where I dont see eye to eye with a lot of people... I do the santa thing with my kids for the first 5years but my daughter was way too quick to figure out that santa has the same wrapping paper as mom used.. lol and whoa santa has the same handwriting too .. lol I didnt go into long stories with her about how hes watching her to see if shes good or bad.. thats just creepy to me also. We made the cookies and she wanted to sleep on the couch etc.. Thats a fun time to kids and its not hurting God in any means allowing my kids that festival.. I also teach my kids about baby Jesus and we have a nativity scene and she asked more questions about THAT than she did santa. I do not believe she knows that Jesus was not actually born then and that we just celebrate His birthday that day.. I do not believe it matters.. There were times in my life where I celebrated my birthday on days other than my birthday... and same goes with her. It did not make the day any less wonderful.

Bandit · 09-14-2005, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faithfulservant

This is where I dont see eye to eye with a lot of people... I do the santa thing with my kids for the first 5years but my daughter was way too quick to figure out that santa has the same wrapping paper as mom used.. lol and whoa santa has the same handwriting too .. lol I didnt go into long stories with her about how hes watching her to see if shes good or bad.. thats just creepy to me also. We made the cookies and she wanted to sleep on the couch etc.. Thats a fun time to kids and its not hurting God in any means allowing my kids that festival.. I also teach my kids about baby Jesus and we have a nativity scene and she asked more questions about THAT than she did santa. I do not believe she knows that Jesus was not actually born then and that we just celebrate His birthday that day.. I do not believe it matters.. There were times in my life where I celebrated my birthday on days other than my birthday... and same goes with her. It did not make the day any less wonderful.

definately. when we all go to the store, but have to sit with dad in the car & we cant look in the bags that mom comes out with & we hear hours of wrapping & taping inside the bedroom... later we find all the wrapped presents in there bedroom closet & under the bed.
once the santa story wore off, the Jesus story was still there. it was like two seperate things all together for us.

I am not sure when my son figured it all out.
What was it like for you Faithful, as a child?
i am wondering if it was different for the girls than the boys.