Science and Faith

[Nitai]

#i find religion confusing....
* well, when you analyse the meaning of religion that means re-again ligio-connecting oneself with who? God. Therefor, without God there is no religion. To who you will connect yourself without God? Maybe just imagine yourself that you are God like the mayavadis of India do or imagine that you become greater than any God like we read here from one Buddhist. I think these two things are confusing but the desire to attain God is not confusing. We anyway always looking for a better person for our association and the best person is of course God.

#but i don't find faith confusing at all....
* one should have faith in several things. 1) in the existence of God 2) that He is attainable by the process of self-realization or let say here the process of developing love for Him. In the beginning faith is based on logic and reasoning later when you get direct experience of God your faith will become unshakable. For example we Hare Krishna devotees attain experience of God by Chanting the His Holy name.

# i saw once on tv...it explained the balance mechanism in the middle ear....that said it all to me ....something i had never even thought about, taken completely for granted.....yet it is so amazingly and obviously (to my mind) engineered.
* Darwinists would say it gradually developed by evolution and so your faith becomes shaken. My opinion is, better to say that nothing can happen without consciousness. The dull matter e.g. the body is inert without consciousness. So it is with anything: atoms, planets. Without presence of God nothing could happen.

# the meaning of science these days is something that can be proven by experiments
* one is sure, scientist cannot put God under their microscopes to understand Him, His consciousness etc. With material imperfect science they make material imperfect machines by which they cannot see God. So, the scientists are limited only to the observation of matter and still, they claim that they can disproof the existence of transcendentally situated Supreme Personality of Godhead. This is called cheating. The only solution for them is to develop their spiritual senses of their souls by which they could experience and also see God one day.

# personally i find that science greatly enhances my faith....
* yes, I would see this from different angels. Their ignorance about God is my inspiration to continue; they cannot show the path to God; they cannot disproof His existence. Or there are discoveries that strongly suggest the existence of God. All these can enhance faith.

# i could almost say it is the cause of it....and it is certainly what keeps me sane amidst confusing and conflicting arguments between religions as i try to find where i belong.
* There is one serious consideration. One can change religion, according to the desire, even every day but one cannot change the relationship with God. That relationship is eternal. It is love expressed through service to Him. We serve so many people in this material world. Even those who claim to be masters are servants of their subjects. E.g. the politicians serve the nation; the teachers the students; the police the citizens etc. Everybody is a servant at least of his own senses: tongue, belly, genital. These services are all the services of this material conditioned life. However, the spiritual service that is the source of all bliss is service to God. That is our eternally blissful position. One can start immediately by serving His holy name. And He will very quickly reciprocate.

# i wouldn't really class myself as a very "spiritual" person actually
* this kind of humility is conducive to spiritual advancement. It is better than the position and pride of the scientists who under illusion think that they know everything.

# the first time i saw DNA on tv my reaction was: woooooooooow....God's machine code!
* yes, when there is something complex you can understand it was made according to some plan; where there is a plan there must be intelligence; intelligence is propelled by consciousness. So, nothing can happen without intelligence and consciousness. Conclusively the Supreme intelligence and supreme consciousness namely God planed everything we find in the universe.
Success.

[lunamoth]

Let me preface by saying that I believe God created it all and saw that it was Good.

Originally Posted by Nitai

# i saw once on tv...it explained the balance mechanism in the middle ear....that said it all to me ....something i had never even thought about, taken completely for granted.....yet it is so amazingly and obviously (to my mind) engineered.
* Darwinists would say it gradually developed by evolution and so your faith becomes shaken. My opinion is, better to say that nothing can happen without consciousness. The dull matter e.g. the body is inert without consciousness. So it is with anything: atoms, planets. Without presence of God nothing could happen.

I agree with your point, Nitai. I see this as one of the main problems in the arguments for teaching ID as science. Scientists, regardless of their theistic or atheistic beliefs, will continue to learn more about the workings of our universe and if history is any indicator they will continue to find better and more refined explanations for how things came to be. No doubt many of the things we see to today as so complex they don't lend themselves easily to our ananlysis will have explanations in the future. And then, if you have based your belief in the Creator on specific unexplainable complexities the basis of your faith will be undermined, or as you say, shaken.

# the meaning of science these days is something that can be proven by experiments
* one is sure, scientist cannot put God under their microscopes to understand Him, His consciousness etc. With material imperfect science they make material imperfect machines by which they cannot see God. So, the scientists are limited only to the observation of matter and still, they claim that they can disproof the existence of transcendentally situated Supreme Personality of Godhead. This is called cheating. The only solution for them is to develop their spiritual senses of their souls by which they could experience and also see God one day.

Scientists are not out to claim they can disprove the existence of God. Scientists acknowledge that questions about the metaphysical/supernatural are outside their sphere of testing and observation. There are scientists who believe in God &/or follow a path that acknowledges and honors the Ground of Being. I only suggest that you not paint in such broad brush strokes and pit science against religion. Many believers find these two endeavors of humans to be complementary, not antagonistic.

# i could almost say it is the cause of it....and it is certainly what keeps me sane amidst confusing and conflicting arguments between religions as i try to find where i belong.
* There is one serious consideration. One can change religion, according to the desire, even every day but one cannot change the relationship with God. That relationship is eternal. It is love expressed through service to Him. We serve so many people in this material world. Even those who claim to be masters are servants of their subjects. E.g. the politicians serve the nation; the teachers the students; the police the citizens etc. Everybody is a servant at least of his own senses: tongue, belly, genital. These services are all the services of this material conditioned life. However, the spiritual service that is the source of all bliss is service to God. ...

I agree.

peace,
lunamoth

[PluckyAli]

A funny def of science is
Science=Blind belief on institutions.

I have to say, that I intensely dislike it when "science" is tied to any form of religious or spiritual belief

I intensely like it when science is tied to any form of religious belif.As a science studnt,I have a hard time understanding spirituality and i don't believe in it.Feynamn's word has been the one Wheels within wheels.Science is natural philosphy to discover inner most wheels if any.A system of continuos investigation based on scientific method is called science.

It always seems like a faith is trying desperately to gain validation via some objective process - which, ultimately, cannot validate it.

A faith can be validated by scientific method.Why can't it be?.Any holy scripture on the holy earth which cliam that holy earth is flat is guaranteed to be fake.

My perception is that religion and science are simply incompatible - they are effectively two separate languages of the human experience.

My perception is of Einstein.Everything is relative.Isaac Newton made a Bible-based estimate of the universe a few thousand years.Dr abdus salam was able to unite electomagnetic and weak nuclear force,he said he got his inspiration from Quran.I believe when we are studing science,we are studing the God.Einstein said

"I want to know how God created this universe.I am not interested in this or that phenomena,I want to know his thoughts,the rare are details."

Darwin said:
"I had no intention to write atheistically."

Most of the scientists are deists.

Wrong def of faith is not going to take you anywhere.Faith means belief on
something particulary belief on religion or God.It has nothing to do with being blind or not.It can be blind,it can't be blind.It depends.

"Faith in science is faith in institutions is faith in government."