scriptural basis for christian objection to homosexuality - Page 9

Dondi · 05-21-2007, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by niranjan

Well, I know that the abrahamic religions forbid homosexuality as an evil. And you can find guys arguing with me on this.

And I know that Paul advocated slavery, which was told to me by a good christian friend of mine.

And you can find Wil himself saying that the bible advocating slavery ( though i am not aware of jesus saying this ). So you can ask him on this.

Peace

Is Paul advocating slavery, or is he just mandating the behavior of a servant to his master in a situation that already exists?

"Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ;" - Ephesians 6:5

As far as homosexuality, aside from the obvious scriptural references in Leviticus and Romans, along with the marriage commandment that a man should leave his mother and father and cleave to his wife, there is the considerations of the natural order of procreation and biological functions to consider. But these have already been exhaustively discussed.

I would entertain by what authority you present your viewpoint.

Of course, since the OP suggests that the current discussion is from a Christian perspective, by what weight would we have in believing you anyway?

Dondi · 05-21-2007, 07:22 PM

oh well, that's that.

niranjan has left the building

I, Brian · 05-21-2007, 07:37 PM

Sorry, Dondi - but I really don't think you would have had much of anything but a generally reactionary answer.

Dondi · 05-21-2007, 07:39 PM

Indeed.

paul · 05-21-2007, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dondi

niranjan has left the building

I find that disapointing

I wanted to prove to him that paul and Christianity has never advocated any one to treat another as a slave, but moreso that we are to submit to the love of God and be a servant to all mankind in it.

And as turn the other cheek goes, and not repaying evil for evil, in that matter of being slaves it was Christians Paul was speaking to, to be content even in hardships and be witnesses of the love of God.
Some Saints even go as far as martydom, and are very hatefully treated, but remain in love even to their persecutors.

Paul didn't say treat others as slaves, but quite the opposite.
And as we lower ourselves to others in love, how can this be encouraging to treat others as slaves, when he taught to repay others with more love than they had given them, and even return love for hatred.

I think the confusion lays in that he encouraged a true Christian to suffer hardships and slavery, but their souls to be free in love.
But to the people he was teaching it was just in their state, for even to masters he taught to be kind to their servants.
There in may lay confusion.

But a don't see this as even encouraing masters to then be evil, or to treat anyone as a slave, but with love and respect.
If a master had set a servant free, they would be unemployed, they themselves wouldn't want such.

What is it you say, that the master should have made him completely equal to himself, and maybe give him half of everything he owned or made him joint master of all he owned?
I doubt many would do that or call for it, would you do it.
People would take advantage, everbody would be lazy.

Surely we have to work, and in work you usually work for someone and there is a boss or master.

How can it be evil to teach a master, a boss, an owner to be good to those who are in service to them, or employed.

In some places in the new testament they did even sell their possesions, property, land and distribute to others.

All you who criticise Paul, lets hear your better teaching.
I'm sure we will find more to criticise truly in your teachings, and if we truly examine Pauls will find nothing to criticise only praise.

It's hard for a rich man to give up all his possesions, or even to distribute to make others as equal in wealth as himself.
He would not then be rich.
Saints have forsaken all.
And what do you say that Paul should have given such a teaching to every master.

juantoo3 · 05-22-2007, 03:09 AM

Kindest Regards, paul!

Quote:

Originally Posted by paul

I wanted to prove to him that paul and Christianity has never advocated any one to treat another as a slave, but moreso that we are to submit to the love of God and be a servant to all mankind in it.

I applaud your desire to reason. Unfortunately, this person was not here to reason or even dialogue. He had an agenda which boiled down to him being correct while all others are not. I spent a considerable amount of time attempting to reason with him, to no avail. Sorry.

Dondi · 05-22-2007, 11:43 AM

You cannot prove a closed mind.

17th Angel · 05-22-2007, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dondi

oh well, that's that.

niranjan has left the building

I am so freaking glad he is gone.... He started making a snowball effect, brought up the Nazi's I started feeling my old ways... I wanted to call him things and do things.... I stopped and realised what the hell was going on... His hate snowball..... Got bigger and bigger, and it can easily drag others into the same feeling.... Suprising how it just happens... But also, in the light of such a situation it is funny to see how others that are very different from each other draw together to kind of "take on" the 'problem'......

Dondi · 05-22-2007, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 17th Angel

I am so freaking glad he is gone.... He started making a snowball effect, brought up the Nazi's I started feeling my old ways... I wanted to call him things and do things.... I stopped and realised what the hell was going on... His hate snowball..... Got bigger and bigger, and it can easily drag others into the same feeling.... Suprising how it just happens... But also, in the light of such a situation it is funny to see how others that are very different from each other draw together to kind of "take on" the 'problem'......

Well, no one likes rudeness...

17th Angel · 05-22-2007, 12:18 PM

It is rude that I am glad he has gone? Becuase it was encouraging certain things within me that are far from pleasant? Odd...

Dondi · 05-22-2007, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 17th Angel

It is rude that I am glad he has gone? Becuase it was encouraging certain things within me that are far from pleasant? Odd...

I didn't mean that YOU were the rude one.

17th Angel · 05-22-2007, 12:26 PM

My deepest apologies.... I can become confused more than often.... Thank you for clearing that up.....

paul · 05-22-2007, 02:36 PM

I'm not glad he's gone, because he's still out there feeling the same.
But think he probably had to be banned for the bad feeling he would continue to cause within himself and maybe have a "snowball effect" on others.

It's sad, but he must be sort of searching coming to a place like this.
I hope he finds some answers in the real world, and that some people can have a positive effect on him.

I think it's a fact, where someones bad behaviour can have a "snowball effect" on others so can someones good behaviour.
That's why i think it's so important to show love to those who have hate within them, even if it is towards us.
For if we hate back, or get drawn into it, then there is two losers.

If we love back at least there is one winner and maybe the chance of two.

It's not easy for any of us to accomplish, but i beleive it is the best way for peace and love within ourselves and hopefully it can have some positive effect on others.

17th Angel · 05-22-2007, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paul

I'm not glad he's gone, because he's still out there feeling the same.

Didn't think of it that way....

Quote:

Originally Posted by paul

I think it's a fact, where someones bad behaviour can have a "snowball effect" on others so can someones good behaviour.
That's why i think it's so important to show love to those who have hate within them, even if it is towards us.

Not as much as negative behaviour.....

To show love I do not think makes this spontaneous snowball of joy and peace... But it helps dull the blade of the "attacker".

juantoo3 · 05-22-2007, 05:53 PM

Kindest Regards, Paul and Angel!

Quote:

Originally Posted by 17th Angel

Not as much as negative behaviour.....

To show love I do not think makes this spontaneous snowball of joy and peace... But it helps dull the blade of the "attacker".

Very astute! Great points Angel!

Quote:

Originally Posted by paul

I'm not glad he's gone, because he's still out there feeling the same.
But think he probably had to be banned for the bad feeling he would continue to cause within himself and maybe have a "snowball effect" on others.

I don't know if you saw the other threads he posted on...I really tried with this guy, but I cannot make seeds grow. Nobody can except G-d.

None of the mods enjoy banning people. Its not the most pleasant part of the job.

Quote:

Originally Posted by paul

It's sad, but he must be sort of searching coming to a place like this.
I hope he finds some answers in the real world, and that some people can have a positive effect on him.

Indeed, I hope he finds some way to reconcile his anger and hurt and hatred, without which he cannot grow spiritually.

Quote:

Originally Posted by paul

I think it's a fact, where someones bad behaviour can have a "snowball effect" on others so can someones good behaviour.
That's why i think it's so important to show love to those who have hate within them, even if it is towards us.
For if we hate back, or get drawn into it, then there is two losers.

Yes, but negative emotions draw us with a greater immediate strength, an immediate reaction.

Let me give an example. What television shows consistently draw greater crowds? Shows like the Sopranos or Alias, or shows like Highway to Heaven or Touched by an Angel? TV execs aren't stupid, they use all the psychology they can to their favor...and people are drawn to naughtiness. Sex sells, I am sure you have heard. People are fascinated with crime, murder and torture, etc. The evening news is full of the stories of how people are so cruel to each other...it is not that there are no nice people doing good things in the world...it is because people do not care to hear about the "good things" we are "supposed to do." We want to hear about the bad guys getting over on the system, we want to cheer for our Robin Hoods and our Bonnie and Clyde's, even if they are in actuality raving lunatics.

While I would love to agree in "snowballing love," the psychological evidence isn't there. Love is a building that has to be constructed with great care and diligence. It is far easier to hate than to love. But love is far more rewarding in the end.

Quote:

Originally Posted by paul

If we love back at least there is one winner and maybe the chance of two.

Agreed, but not for the same reasons, see above.

Quote:

Originally Posted by paul

It's not easy for any of us to accomplish, but i beleive it is the best way for peace and love within ourselves and hopefully it can have some positive effect on others.

Certainly. One hopes for the best, and cultivates that eventuality. We are also told to be wise as a serpent and gentle as a dove. I take that to mean we have to be prepared to meet hatred head-on...but not to encourage it. I did what I could to diffuse the situation...but the other person was determined to continue in hatred. I cannot stop his hatred, but I can assist in deflecting it to where it does no more harm here.

I hope this helps. Pray for niranjan. Pray that he finds a way to let go of his hatred.