Self Power - Other Power - Grace

[Tariki]

To AletheiaRivers...and Earl,

Thanks for your posts, which I have just noticed. I read back through my own posts to familiarise myself with the theme of the thread and as always when I do this sort of thing, have a strange sense of "did I write that?", not in the sense of disagreement, but a disconcerting sense of unfamiliarity I find difficult to understand. I won't delve too deeply into this..............

Anyway, Eckhart has been mentioned and in a context of "letting God be God in you". You may both be familiar with his words given in his sermon on the Biblical beatitude "Blessed are the poor in spirit" where he speaks of the "true" poverty, but whether familiar or not they are perhaps worth repeating and dwelling upon again..............

"Now listen carefully! I have often said that we should be so free of all things and all works, both innner and outer, that we become the place where God can act. But now we put it differently. If it is the case that someone is free of all creatures, of God and of themselves, if God finds a place to act in them, then we say: as long as this exists in someone, they have not yet reached the ultimate poverty. For God does not intend there to be a place in someone where he can act, but if there is to be true poverty of spirit, someone must be so free of God and all his works that if God wishes to act in the soul he must himself be the place in which he can act, and this he is certainly willing to be. For if God finds us THIS poor, then God performs his own active work and we passively receive God in ourselves and God becomes the place of his work in us since God works within himself. In this poverty, we attain again the eternal being which we once enjoyed, which is ours now and shall be for ever."

I have just finished reading a Shin (Pure Land) Buddhist classic called "Naturalness", which weaves in part around the Shin idea of "no calculation" where "no working is true working". The same themes found in the words of Eckhart were being played out, yet in words strikingly dissimiliar. For one such as myself, often floundering arround with a mind seemingly far from the realization of enlightenment, I find such parrallels encouraging.............and a rich source of trust and faith..........which perhaps I seek above all else.

Thanks anyway for your interest!

[Eudaimonist]

Originally Posted by Tariki

In my own Pure Land faith, we use the terms "self power" and "other power".

Hi, my philosophical path is roughly what you might call a "self-power" path. I disagree that "calculation" (rational activity) is useless in life -- it is our supreme tool for survival and flourishing! Eudaimonia -- a flourishing life -- is at root a rational life, no matter what one might add on to that.

But, then, my path is aimed at self-actualization, not enlightenment. Our differing goals may lead to different appreciation for means.


eudaimonia,

M.

[Tariki]

Originally Posted by Eudaimonist

Hi, my philosophical path is roughly what you might call a "self-power" path. I disagree that "calculation" (rational activity) is useless in life -- it is our supreme tool for survival and flourishing! Eudaimonia -- a flourishing life -- is at root a rational life, no matter what one might add on to that.

But, then, my path is aimed at self-actualization, not enlightenment. Our differing goals may lead to different appreciation for means.


eudaimonia,

M.

Eudaimonia,

Yes, as you say, our "aim" and our differing goals would effect whatever "means" we might pursue. There is in fact a long tradition of "self-cultivation" within the Pure Land path of Buddhism, yet the main purpose -as in all Buddhist paths - is "enlightenment", "liberation", the "ending of suffering".......or "the complete and unshakeable deliverance of mind" as the Majjhima NIkaya would have it.

"Calculation" (or "hakarai" in Japanese) is virtually a technical term when used in Pure Land thought - the noun form of a verb meaning to deliberate and determine a course of action. As a synonym for self-power, it refers to all acts of intellect and will aimed at achieving liberation, specifically the practicer's efforts to make themselves "worthy" in their own eyes..............Great compassion illumines everyone at all times, but any contrivance to attain enlightenment by cultivating one's own virtues or capabilities - whether through moral action or religious practice - will blind one to it, making sincere trust impossible.

I would also say that, as with all Buddhist thought, ultimately there is the non-dual perspective..................Self-power IS other-power, other-power IS self power. This is the paradox, that even attempts at "non-calculation" is in effect calculation!

"O! Saichi, will you tell us of Other Power?
Yes, but there is neither Other Power nor self power.
What is, is the graceful acceptance only."

[Eudaimonist]

Originally Posted by Tariki

Eudaimonia,

Hm, I've noticed at this and other boards that people don't understand that my signoff, "eudaimonia", isn't my name, but a kind of well-wishing, something like signing off with "namaste" or "metta". I will use my full first name to make this clearer from now on.

Yes, as you say, our "aim" and our differing goals would effect whatever "means" we might pursue. There is in fact a long tradition of "self-cultivation" within the Pure Land path of Buddhism, yet the main purpose -as in all Buddhist paths - is "enlightenment", "liberation", the "ending of suffering".......or "the complete and unshakeable deliverance of mind" as the Majjhima NIkaya would have it.

Then we are speaking at cross-purposes. Thank you for clarifying the context of the discussion.


eudaimonia,

Mark

[Tariki]

Originally Posted by Eudaimonist

Hm, I've noticed at this and other boards that people don't understand that my signoff, "eudaimonia", isn't my name, but a kind of well-wishing, something like signing off with "namaste" or "metta". I will use my full first name to make this clearer from now on.



Then we are speaking at cross-purposes. Thank you for clarifying the context of the discussion.


eudaimonia,

Mark

Mark,

Sorry about the name, my mistake. And a belated thank-you for the good wishes!

Best wishes to you.

Tariki (Derek)


P.S. I would also add that, simply put, there are two basic trends within Buddhism towards "enlightenment"................The enlightenment of "oneself" and the attainment of nirvana (Theravada) - the Arahat....................and the enlightenment of "oneself" which ineviteable involves the "salvation" of all, where nirvana = samsara (Mahayana) - the Bodhisattva. The Pure Land tradition belongs to the latter.