Sex

[I, Brian]

...or, "When is desire wrong?"

We've touched - albeit, briefly - on various issues of sex and sexuality about the various threads.

What I'd like to do is dedicate this single thread for a general discussions of sex and desire in general, and explore what is to be accepted as "right and wrong" both in religious and secular terms.

For example, with reference to interpersonal relationships, is adultery always wrong? How about polyandry - is that acceptable?

And how about pornography - written and visual - is it wrong or acceptable? Is a woman who works for minimum wage morally superior to one who poses topless for a living?

Why?

What are the justifications you can provide for your agreement or objection? Is it simply personal, observational, devotional, or ethical?

Time to engage in a full discussion of issues of "Sex".

[brucegdc]

Originally Posted by I, Brian

...or, "When is desire wrong?"

We've touched - albeit, briefly - on various issues of sex and sexuality about the various threads.

What I'd like to do is dedicate this single thread for a general discussions of sex and desire in general, and explore what is to be accepted as "right and wrong" both in religious and secular terms.

For example, with reference to interpersonal relationships, is adultery always wrong? How about polyandry - is that acceptable?

And how about pornography - written and visual - is it wrong or acceptable? Is a woman who works for minimum wage morally superior to one who poses topless for a living?

Why?

What are the justifications you can provide for your agreement or objection? Is it simply personal, observational, devotional, or ethical?

Time to engage in a full discussion of issues of "Sex".

Adultery is acceptable only if all parties involved are aware and freely agree, IMO. Otherwise, someone is likely to be hurt. The risk here is that someone will "agree" but not really agree, and they'll be hurt by it. For example, a partner who is afraid of losing their spouse may agree to let that spouse "fool around" rather than risk a confrontation that breaks up their relationship. [Of course the argument here is whether that realtionship is already busted....]

Polyandry? Polygamy? Group marriage? Why not? Again, as long as everyone involved is aware and consents freely. There was a story in the Washington Post yesterday about polygamy in Indonesia, which focussed on one family. The husband chose to take a second wife (as is permitted by his faith), but didn't tell or ask the input of his first wife. That's wrong.

[Baud]

My general rule on sex is that as long as the partners consent (and I mean informed consent) and nobody is harmed, then anything is fine.

Baud

[Phyllis Sidhe_Uaine]

Originally posted by Baud
My general rule on sex is that as long as the partners consent (and I mean informed consent) and nobody is harmed, then anything is fine.

Baud

Addendum on my part: As long as there isn't a disparancy (is that a word?) in power as well as there being informed consent, then I'd consider each case on a case-by-case basis.

Hypothetical case in point: Let's say that this one instructor and I decide to have consentual intimate relations and, somewhere along the line, a class he is hoping to teach isn't cancelled, and it is one that I've signed up for. Because he is now my teacher, he has power over me, and in a way, I have power over him (because all I have to do is inform the head of the department of the intimate relations while I'm a student of this particular teacher, he loses everything, including everything he's worked for, his scholarship/grant, plus he would be sent back to his home country to face whatever they want to place on him.)

"Simple" case of ethics.

Not-so-hypothetical case in point: The problems that the Catholic Church is facing here in America and abroad concerning priests violating their positions of power with people in their parishes (not all of them boys.) Enough said about that.

Phyllis Sidhe_Uaine

[Phyllis Sidhe_Uaine]

Originally posted by Baud
My general rule on sex is that as long as the partners consent (and I mean informed consent) and nobody is harmed, then anything is fine.

Baud

Addendum on my part: As long as there isn't a disparancy (is that a word?) in power as well as there being informed consent, then I'd consider each case on a case-by-case basis.

Hypothetical case in point: Let's say that this one instructor and I decide to have consentual intimate relations and, somewhere along the line, a class he is hoping to teach isn't cancelled, and it is one that I've signed up for. Because he is now my teacher, he has power over me, and in a way, I have power over him (because all I have to do is inform the head of the department of the intimate relations while I'm a student of this particular teacher, he loses everything, including everything he's worked for, his scholarship/grant, plus he would be sent back to his home country to face whatever they want to place on him.)

"Simple" case of ethics.

Not-so-hypothetical case in point: The problems that the Catholic Church is facing here in America and abroad concerning priests violating their positions of power with people in their parishes (not all of them boys.) Enough said about that.

Phyllis Sidhe_Uaine

[Thresher]

The group I was invovled with in TX for a while started practicing polygamy. I never did come to a definete conclusion on it. I know the patriarchs and the Kings had multiple wives. But I thought of the story of Noah and the Seven pairs of clean animals. I've been on farms, and they don't have a bull for every cow or a ram for every ewe. So that and the fact that the way they were practicing it. Not marrying them legally and having illegitimate children so they could collect welfare along with some other doctrines they suddenly changed caused me to leave.

[Vajradhara]

Namaste all,

well... i must admit that i don't have many of these same concerns with regards to sex as seem to be prevelant in the west.

what is the fascination amongst the western culture with sex?

in any event.... with regards to adultry, if your spouse knows about it, is it adultry then? wouldn't that simply be spouse swapping or what have you? adultry implies the commission of an act that is decpetive, in my opinon.

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by I, Brian

...or, "When is desire wrong?"

We've touched - albeit, briefly - on various issues of sex and sexuality about the various threads.

What I'd like to do is dedicate this single thread for a general discussions of sex and desire in general, and explore what is to be accepted as "right and wrong" both in religious and secular terms.

For example, with reference to interpersonal relationships, is adultery always wrong? How about polyandry - is that acceptable?

And how about pornography - written and visual - is it wrong or acceptable? Is a woman who works for minimum wage morally superior to one who poses topless for a living?

Why?

What are the justifications you can provide for your agreement or objection? Is it simply personal, observational, devotional, or ethical?

Time to engage in a full discussion of issues of "Sex".

Sex is just that. It is neither right nor wrong. It is a tool (most normally to improve relationships, and a way for adults to have fun...yeah, fun - whoaaaa, and it is fun). A hem...ok. So where were we, oh yes, sex.

When is the right time for sex?

Biologically we can throw the whole world up into an upheaval by saying "hmmm about 15 years of age". Why? for females 15 is prime child bearing BIOLOGICALLY SPEAKING.

How can you say that Q?...easy. Mary was about 15 when she had Jesus, and so were the rest of the woman of childbearing years 2000 years ago. That was standard, and life expectancy was about 42 years of age.

Where does that come from? We are twice as long lived as our primate cousins...they mature at 7, have kids at 8, and die by 30. We mature at 14, capbable of having kids by then and die by 70/80 (only due to medicine and healthier habits).

Now, throw in the new way of life. We hold our kids close to hearth and home until age 17/18, send them off to college, they come out at age 22/23, with the strong potential for a good job. Add society's demands and they don't marry until 27. But...what about sex?

Calvin Klein advertises that a 14 year old should be thinking about attracting the opposite sex by baring midriff, the crack of HER backside, what little cleavage she may have (don't believe me, just look at the advertisements), and a position of submission to any male by the way she is bent over.

But what about the boys?...Glad you asked. CK's boys are 16 to 22, with considerable "packages" within their underwear (or else verrrry imaginative spin doctors in the art department), and their hips are always (I mean always), thrust out just enough to force the attention to the front of their add.

How do I know this?...right? Because, my neice and step daughter brought it straight to my attention (no bones about it).
Ages of the girls? 14 and 15.

So, it's there in the 13/18 group, horomonely speaking. Now, are the kids ready psychologically speaking?

You, parent, have to ask a question of self. Are you ready? I know, I am such an ass (hole). But someone had to ask the question. And the answer is....

NO! Most of us parents aren't ready for this from our kids. What is it that stops us cold in our tracks? Timing.

The time is not right. Why not? Maturity, the world, our fear of letting go. It is a whole lot more that can't be put into words. Within reason, most parents know when to let go, and history shows that once the child leaves the home, and is more or less on their own, we can start to let go, and we don't pry into their sexual lives (though we think about it a lot).

Unlike any other game Humans play, the sex game can come with blessings or consequences. It isn't for children...it is for us adults.

This is my opinion, this is how I raise my kids, and this is how I hope they raise theirs.

p.s. my sons still laugh at when my wife and I continue to cause the ceiling to crack...after twenty years they still laugh about it. To them it is cool, something Mom and Dad do.