Sex Magik

[Vajradhara]

Salaam Susma,


sorry for being absent... i've been ill the past week or so.

in any event... what would you like to know?

"genuine" sex majik?

you should understand that their is a difference in how these things are seen in the Eastern cultures. Tantric praxis is a totality of practice, encompassing every aspect of life.. from the most mundane chores (chop wood, carry water) to the most blissful expereince, sexual union.

in the Tantric tradition, these modes of behavior, if you will, are considered to be Vehicles which, when properly utilized, can lead one along the path of liberation.

the Taoist tradition of sexual alchemy is, from the Complete Reality school, viewed as a minor byway, rather like the engery circulation exercises. oh, there is some temporary benefit, however, the danger in becoming attached to these experiences is fairly high in those of lesser capacity.

[Susma Rio Sep]

Originally Posted by Vajradhara

Salaam Susma,


sorry for being absent... i've been ill the past week or so.

in any event... what would you like to know?

"genuine" sex majik?

you should understand that their is a difference in how these things are seen in the Eastern cultures. Tantric praxis is a totality of practice, encompassing every aspect of life.. from the most mundane chores (chop wood, carry water) to the most blissful expereince, sexual union.

in the Tantric tradition, these modes of behavior, if you will, are considered to be Vehicles which, when properly utilized, can lead one along the path of liberation.

the Taoist tradition of sexual alchemy is, from the Complete Reality school, viewed as a minor byway, rather like the engery circulation exercises. oh, there is some temporary benefit, however, the danger in becoming attached to these experiences is fairly high in those of lesser capacity.

What happened? You were sick for a week? Tell me, maybe I can help.

I practise medicine at home and with myself and for my family. I give also medical tips to people asking me, and in many instances I save them a lot of money with doctors and unnecessary medicines. Then also in any stop by a traffic officer I can and do manage to get off playing the character of a doctor, that is, a physician.

About sex magik, I feel a bit let down. Maybe I was looking forward to some tips so that like Brian we would not look like having a dull life in this regard.

Anyway, you mention about "temporary benefit", please let us know about this benefit. And in regard to "the danger in becoming attached to these experiences... fairly high in those of lesser capacity", let me decide on the danger and on my capacity, all right?

Pachomius2000

[Lady_Selune]

Originally Posted by Chela

Using this blood is inadvisable because it is dirty energy. That energy is being removed from the woman for a reason. Using it is like using feces, which, is although used by some people, is dirty too.

We don't see it as dirty energy. It, of course, should never be used by a male, but I knew many women who use it for a variety of things. Myself, well when I was still able I didn't, but then again due to cancer I have not even had the abioity to since i was 24. =)

[Vajradhara]

Namaste Susma,

thank you for the post and your concern.

Originally Posted by Susma Rio Sep

What happened? You were sick for a week? Tell me, maybe I can help.

a viral infection in my jaw.

About sex magik, I feel a bit let down. Maybe I was looking forward to some tips so that like Brian we would not look like having a dull life in this regard.

i know... it seems so exotic and strange.. yet... it's completely ordinary. eh.. i suspect that it has to do with perception more than anything else.

Anyway, you mention about "temporary benefit", please let us know about this benefit.

well... since it's temporary and is a minor byway, i think that this should be something that you explore for yourself. i'm not all that interested in presenting minor techniques which the teachers themselves feel are not worthwhile.

And in regard to "the danger in becoming attached to these experiences... fairly high in those of lesser capacity", let me decide on the danger and on my capacity, all right?

Pachomius2000

it's not a matter of deciding what your capacity is... it is what it is. it is either greater or lesser than other beings, and, in the Taoist Spiritual Alchemy teachings, beings are considered of three sorts, inferior capacity, lesser capacity and greater capacity.

in this sense, capacity is used to indicate the ability of the being to comprehend the message, understand the exoteric and esoteric and to put them actually into practice.

[juantoo3]

Kindest Regards, Vaj!

I'm sorry to hear you haven't been feeling well lately. I wish you a speedy recovery!

[Vajradhara]

Namaste Juan,

thank you for the post and the kind words.

Germ Theory... gotta love that science, eh?

i'm feeling 100% better.. though i'm not quite done with the cycle yet.

Originally Posted by juantoo3

Kindest Regards, Vaj!

I'm sorry to hear you haven't been feeling well lately. I wish you a speedy recovery!

[Erynn]

For those interested in the Western "improve your sex life and stir up your internal energy" variety of Tantra, I came across this notice on one of my email lists today:

Carla Tarantola, tantra instructor, will be hosting a new Internet radio show called 'Tantra Today' beginning Thursday October 28 at 1 pm EST at: www.voiceamerica.com

[Susma Rio Sep]

Originally Posted by Vajradhara

Namaste Susma,

thank you for the post and your concern.


a viral infection in my jaw.


i know... it seems so exotic and strange.. yet... it's completely ordinary. eh.. i suspect that it has to do with perception more than anything else.


well... since it's temporary and is a minor byway, i think that this should be something that you explore for yourself. i'm not all that interested in presenting minor techniques which the teachers themselves feel are not worthwhile.


it's not a matter of deciding what your capacity is... it is what it is. it is either greater or lesser than other beings, and, in the Taoist Spiritual Alchemy teachings, beings are considered of three sorts, inferior capacity, lesser capacity and greater capacity.

in this sense, capacity is used to indicate the ability of the being to comprehend the message, understand the exoteric and esoteric and to put them actually into practice.

About viral infection, did your doctor give you antibiotics? The idea seems to be ready for any opportunist bacteria lurking about. In my 'practice' I would rather wait until the bacterial infection appears before I dispense antibiotics.

About sex magik, I guess I don't have to worry about missing something that my being a creature of habit might have to learn new lessons to enjoy.

Pachomius2000

[Vajradhara]

Howdy susma,

thank you for the post.

Originally Posted by Susma Rio Sep

About viral infection, did your doctor give you antibiotics?

nope... it would be foolish to take an antibiotic for a viral infection

The idea seems to be ready for any opportunist bacteria lurking about. In my 'practice' I would rather wait until the bacterial infection appears before I dispense antibiotics.

i don't take prescribed medicines unless it's a very serious issue.

[jivananda]

I myself Practice sex magic and will write more on it when I have more time but for now I just wanted to address the Idea of squeezing the penis to retain the seamen - this is actually a tantic practice but the point is the perineum behind the testicles - if you press this point hard at the moment of orgasm you will not ejaculate - it works and I have taught it for years - its a sort of cheat for the novice while learning how to clinch the muscle so that the same end result is achieved. The sensation is strange in the beginning but once you are used to it, normal ejaculation feels inadequate. I will talk more later on the benefits I believe this to give but for one you will be able to continue with the sex act again very quickly and for the very practiced in continuity - so for the women it is very beneficial if she is wanting you to last a bit longer. Give it a try

[Vajradhara]

Namatse Chela,

thank you for the post.

Originally Posted by Chela

Yes but every system of representation is interdependent, and therefore all the same.

interdependence is a fairly significant point within the Buddha Dharma, however, that does not mean that all things are the same. this is a teaching of monsim which Buddhism does not accept as accurate.

Ten is defined by base 10 apples, or 1010 base 2 apples, or "whatever" in some other base, but they are all referring to the same number of apples, and, every representation can only refer to other known representations to define its value.

actually, this is not so. in Base2 maths, for instance, you cannot have a value called "ten". you have, instead, values of "one" or "zero" if you could have a value called "ten" youd be using Base10 maths. if, however, what you are saying is that linguistic categories do not represent the actual state of being, then i would tend to agree with you.

The only real way to know about this value is to see this number of apples, and understand the concept of "1" and "2."

what do you mean by the terms "only" and "real"? this implies that all other methods of knowing are invalid on their face, which i wouldn't imagine is a position that can be well supported.

[Chela]

I agree with you about monism!

I agree with you about math!

I agree with you about knowledge!

But why discuss such non-topical things? I thought this thread was about sexual magic.
In Tibetan Buddhism, especially if you look at the iconography of deities with consorts, you can see a lot of very explicit sexual symbolism which often gives the wrong impression. Actually, in this case the sex organ is utilized, but the energy movement which is taking place is, in the end, fully controlled. The energy should never be let out. This energy must be controlled and eventually returned to other parts of the body. What is required for a tantric practitioner is to develop the capacity to utilize one's faculties of bliss and the blissful experiences which are specifically generated due to the flow of regenerative fluids within one's energy channels. It is crucial to have the ability to protect oneself from the fault of emission. It is not just a purely ordinary sexual act. - The Fourteenth Dalai Lama


I also agree with H. H. The Fourteenth Dalai Lama. However I do not agree with the "three finger lock" technique that is popular among some Daoist alchemists because instead of raising prana into the brain it devolutes into the personal infernos of man, giving him the tail of a demon!


I most solemnly warn all student against making any effort whatever in the direction of awakening these tremendous forces, expect under qualified tuition, for I have myself seen many cases of the terrible effects which follow from ignorant and ill advised meddling with these very serious matters. The force is a tremendous reality, one of the great basic facts of nature, and most emphatically it is not a thing to be played with, or to be lightly taken in hand, for to experiment with it without understanding it is far more dangerous than it would be for a child to play with nitroglycerine. As it very truly said in the Hathayogapradipika: “It gives liberation to yogis and bondage to fools.” (iii. 107.) …The really appalling dangers are connected not with its upward rush, but with the possibility of its turning downwards and inwards. - C. W. Leadbeater


Sexual energy is not to be played with, it converts man into an God or a Demon. Nothing is born without the sexual energy, creation itself is sexual problem.

[Vajradhara]

Namaste Chela,

thank you for the post.

Originally Posted by Chela

I agree with you about monism!

I agree with you about math!

I agree with you about knowledge!

But why discuss such non-topical things? I thought this thread was about sexual magic.

indeed, it is. however, to have such a discussion, would it not be prudent to establish the symbol set that each being is working with? in order to facilitate communication, if nothing more.

typed communication tends to be a bit wordy and overly convoluted compared to face to face communication, mainly since we lose the information that is transmitted via non-verbal signals.

In Tibetan Buddhism, especially if you look at the iconography of deities with consorts, you can see a lot of very explicit sexual symbolism which often gives the wrong impression. Actually, in this case the sex organ is utilized, but the energy movement which is taking place is, in the end, fully controlled. The energy should never be let out. This energy must be controlled and eventually returned to other parts of the body. What is required for a tantric practitioner is to develop the capacity to utilize one's faculties of bliss and the blissful experiences which are specifically generated due to the flow of regenerative fluids within one's energy channels. It is crucial to have the ability to protect oneself from the fault of emission. It is not just a purely ordinary sexual act. - The Fourteenth Dalai Lama

from whence was this quote derived? do you recall from which Tantra this was taken?

I also agree with H. H. The Fourteenth Dalai Lama. However I do not agree with the "three finger lock" technique that is popular among some Daoist alchemists because instead of raising prana into the brain it devolutes into the personal infernos of man, giving him the tail of a demon!

clearly, given my views of the alchemical texts, i view the physical aspect as a minor byway, a bit of a fun juant through the country lane, as it were, but more of a distraction than anything else. as referenced earlierly, this is a view which is shared amongst the classics of the Complete Reality Schools, as such, other schools may disagree.

I most solemnly warn all student against making any effort whatever in the direction of awakening these tremendous forces, expect under qualified tuition, for I have myself seen many cases of the terrible effects which follow from ignorant and ill advised meddling with these very serious matters. The force is a tremendous reality, one of the great basic facts of nature, and most emphatically it is not a thing to be played with, or to be lightly taken in hand, for to experiment with it without understanding it is far more dangerous than it would be for a child to play with nitroglycerine. As it very truly said in the Hathayogapradipika: “It gives liberation to yogis and bondage to fools.” (iii. 107.) …The really appalling dangers are connected not with its upward rush, but with the possibility of its turning downwards and inwards. - C. W. Leadbeater


Sexual energy is not to be played with, it converts man into an God or a Demon. Nothing is born without the sexual energy, creation itself is sexual problem.

interesting choice of words... clearly, i would disagree with several of the conclusions you've reached... however, i do agree that engaging in sex magik without going through the proper training is not going to be of benefit and may, in fact, be of harm.

of course, i also don't believe in Creation... so.. there's that..

[Chela]

indeed, it is. however, to have such a discussion, would it not be prudent to establish the symbol set that each being is working with? in order to facilitate communication, if nothing more.

You are over complicating the issue here. The different radix examples I used were done to show the reader that the number itself is never seen, only representations or forms of that number. It does not matter what radix one uses. The issue seems very simple.

from whence was this quote derived? do you recall from which Tantra this was taken?

I believe it is from a book entitled The Heart of the Buddha's Path.

clearly, given my views of the alchemical texts, i view the physical aspect as a minor byway, a bit of a fun juant through the country lane, as it were, but more of a distraction than anything else. as referenced earlierly, this is a view which is shared amongst the classics of the Complete Reality Schools, as such, other schools may disagree.

Yes.

Serkong Rinpoche never claimed himself to be a yogi or to have any special powers. If we wanted an example of someone who did, he said we did not need to look only to the remote past. His father, Serkong Dorjey-chang, was a clear example. As a monk at Ganden Jangtsey Monastery, his father had attained the stage of anuttarayoga tantra at which he could practice special yoga techniques with a consort to reach the deepest level of mind. This advanced point on the complete stage requires full mastery of the subtle energy system, with total control over both internal and external matter and energy. His vows of celibacy would normally prohibit him from such practice. When His Holiness the Thirteenth Dalai Lama asked for proof of his attainment, Serkong Dorjey-chang tied a yak horn into a knot and presented it. Convinced, the Thirteenth Dalai Lama permitted Serkong Dorjey-chang to keep his monastic holdings while practicing at this level. Rinpoche matter-of-factly mentioned that they kept this horn in his home as a child.

- A Portrait of Tsenzhab Serkong Rinponche

It is clear that other great gurus have had a consort or wife -- such as great poet Milarepa!

interesting choice of words... clearly, i would disagree with several of the conclusions you've reached... however, i do agree that engaging in sex magik without going through the proper training is not going to be of benefit and may, in fact, be of harm.

You would or you do? Conclusions of logical discussion are good, but always flawed; lived experience is better when combined with perfect awareness!

of course, i also don't believe in Creation... so.. there's that..

Don't you mean that you do not believe in the Creation that you think I am talking about?

[Vajradhara]

Namaste Chela,

thank you for the post.

Originally Posted by Chela

You are over complicating the issue here. The different radix examples I used were done to show the reader that the number itself is never seen, only representations or forms of that number. It does not matter what radix one uses. The issue seems very simple.

i would disagree, the issue may seem simple, yet it is not. for instance, what do the terms "raven and rabbit" mean to you? this is a very specific symbol set within the Northern school of Complete Reality Taoism and having a misconception of this term is going to result in missing the mark.

I believe it is from a book entitled The Heart of the Buddha's Path.

interesting... i don't think i've seen that book before.

It is clear that other great gurus have had a consort or wife -- such as great poet Milarepa!

who is disputing this? certainly not i. please understand that Taoism and Buddhism are not the same practice, though they have many commonalities, especially amongst the Varjayana and the Complete Reality schools.

T'song Khapa also taught that one can use a phsyical action seal, nevertheless, because students of later generations are prone to misunderstanding, he didn't use an action seal, perfering instead liberation in the Between.

You would or you do? Conclusions of logical discussion are good, but always flawed; lived experience is better when combined with perfect awareness!

i do. ideas such as "god" and "demon" are, essentially, meaningless to me. these are aspects of rebirth, in our view, anyway... one could take rebirth in the heavenly or hungry ghost realms. also the assumption that there is "creation" is one that i cannot accept.

Don't you mean that you do not believe in the Creation that you think I am talking about?

er.. well... i don't believe in Creation, period. by this i mean to indicate the multiverse and all of their contents is not created. if you mean something other than the sum of ontological reality with the term "creation", then i may or may not disagree... depending on how the term is defined.