shaking womens hands

[BlaznFattyz]

"mahram" doesnt that refer to marriage? i was just asking about shaking hands? is shaking hands considered dating? and thats why its not allowed? or maybe guys, in many countries, make the rules and they know behind innocent hand shaking is their bad intentions?

[f_GT05]

I do like to make an other point.

"We narrate to you the most accurate history through the revelation of this Quran. Before this, you were totally unaware." 12:3

"In their history, there is a lesson for those who possess intelligence......" 12:111

"She was told, "Go inside the palace." When she saw its interior, she thought it was a pool of water, and she (pulled up her dress) exposing her legs. He said, "This interior is now paved with crystal." She said, "MY LORD, I HAVE WRONGED MY SOUL. I NOW SUBMIT WITH SOLOMON TO GOD, LORD OF THE UNIVERSE."

In the Quran God tells us about the Queen of Sheba.She used to worship sun instead of God Almighty.Later she became a beliver in God One and Only while still the Queen of Sheba,the ruler of a nation.

Now,what does that tell us?
Does it tell us woman cant lead a nation?
Does it tell us all woman should be hiding behind a curtain at all times?
Does it tell us woman cant shake hands?
Or that woman cant go shoping alone or work,go to school and so on?
NO,it dont tell us any of that.


I hope you all think a little harder and see the truth,dont be stubborn.
It is not that hard to understnd.

By the way banning my old name was laime,there was no reason for that.
I was trying to prove a point but sadly you wont listen.
peace.

[thipps]

Originally Posted by BlaznFattyz

"mahram" doesnt that refer to marriage?

Mahram refers to the group of people who are unlawful for a woman to marry due to marital or blood relationships.

i was just asking about shaking hands? is shaking hands considered dating?

Muslims arent allowed to date. We do not go about this as you go about it.

and thats why its not allowed? or maybe guys, in many countries, make the rules and they know behind innocent hand shaking is their bad intentions?

No, the reason was explained by Yaqinuddin and I specifically highlighted it for you. Please go back to the relevant threads and read them again.
Please also note that rules in Islamic Law are based on the Qur'an and the Sunnah, 'guys' dont make them.

[Awaiting_the_fifth]

Originally Posted by thipps

Let me make it more clear for you. If it was your mother/sister/wife and a bunch of men wanted to shake thier hands and touch them, would you like it?

Touch? In a sexual way? no, I would not accept that. But I am having real difficulty seeing how a hand shake is in any way sexual.

Any man in the world has my permission to shake my mother's hand, it is a declaration of friendship, respect and equality.

Do my learned muslim friends really consider this act sexually immoral? Or is it more of a religious observance?

[miclason]

Peace to all! ....now, I hope I don't come off as aggressive here, but, why should it be such big news that islamic representatives do not want to shake the Minister's hand because she is a woman...what if we turn this around -to really try to see if from the opposite point of view - why does the Minister NOT want to greet them in the way which is customary in their countries?? ... If these were "western" men not trying to shake her hand, that would be different, I would consider that an offense, but, if these men will not shake hands with women outside their own families, not shaking hands with her is not an offensive gesture, and should not be construed as one...

[lunamoth]

Originally Posted by miclason

Peace to all! ....now, I hope I don't come off as aggressive here, but, why should it be such big news that islamic representatives do not want to shake the Minister's hand because she is a woman...what if we turn this around -to really try to see if from the opposite point of view - why does the Minister NOT want to greet them in the way which is customary in their countries?? ... If these were "western" men not trying to shake her hand, that would be different, I would consider that an offense, but, if these men will not shake hands with women outside their own families, not shaking hands with her is not an offensive gesture, and should not be construed as one...

I think you make a very good point.

peace,
lunamoth

[thipps]

Originally Posted by Awaiting_the_fifth

Touch? In a sexual way? no, I would not accept that. But I am having real difficulty seeing how a hand shake is in any way sexual.

The question was phrased and asked for the person who made the comment. I wouldnt have asked you that question. And, the fact that you cant understand it, doesnt make it wrong. You'll probably have to think out of the box.

Do my learned muslim friends really consider this act sexually immoral? Or is it more of a religious observance?

First, your insinuation that an educated/learned person wouldnt consider this something immoral is not taken lightly.
Second, your statement indicates that you think that Islamic Law is not practical and is just about restrictions for the sake of restrictions.
This is nothing but your own shortsightedness.
Besides, you should be here to learn, not to mock Muslims and thier teachings/injunctions.

[thipps]

Originally Posted by miclason

Peace to all! ....now, I hope I don't come off as aggressive here, but, why should it be such big news that islamic representatives do not want to shake the Minister's hand because she is a woman...what if we turn this around -to really try to see if from the opposite point of view - why does the Minister NOT want to greet them in the way which is customary in their countries?? ... If these were "western" men not trying to shake her hand, that would be different, I would consider that an offense, but, if these men will not shake hands with women outside their own families, not shaking hands with her is not an offensive gesture, and should not be construed as one...

Excellent. You have understood the matter by thinking about the other side. The fact is that the Minister was ignorant about Muslim ways; something that obviously should be corrected to avoid such incidences. And I agree with you that this is not an issue that should be big news. I suspect that the fact that Muslims were involved might have played a role in this regard.

[Awaiting_the_fifth]

Originally Posted by thipps

First, your insinuation that an educated/learned person wouldnt consider this something immoral is not taken lightly.
Second, your statement indicates that you think that Islamic Law is not practical and is just about restrictions for the sake of restrictions.
This is nothing but your own shortsightedness.
Besides, you should be here to learn, not to mock Muslims and thier teachings/injunctions.

You misunderstand me, there was no sarcasm intended in my statement.

Peace to all! ....now, I hope I don't come off as aggressive here, but, why should it be such big news that islamic representatives do not want to shake the Minister's hand because she is a woman...what if we turn this around -to really try to see if from the opposite point of view - why does the Minister NOT want to greet them in the way which is customary in their countries?? ... If these were "western" men not trying to shake her hand, that would be different, I would consider that an offense, but, if these men will not shake hands with women outside their own families, not shaking hands with her is not an offensive gesture, and should not be construed as one...

The gesture was made in a country where it is considered to be an insult to refuse to shake someone's hand. If this was a western representative in a muslim country I would agree with you, but these are muslim representatives in a western country and as such they must be prepared to make allowances for western culture.

[miclason]

...hmmm...you are talking about culture, but, for these muslim men it is not a matter of culture, but rather a matter or religion...I wouldn't want to do something that goes against my religious belief, nor would I feel comfortable making someone else go against his/her religious beliefs...cultural patterns are one thing, and one must make allowances for that, granted, but when something goes against your religion, it's different...

[Tao_Equus]

Originally Posted by thipps

The question was phrased and asked for the person who made the comment. I wouldnt have asked you that question. And, the fact that you cant understand it, doesnt make it wrong. You'll probably have to think out of the box.

First, your insinuation that an educated/learned person wouldnt consider this something immoral is not taken lightly.
Second, your statement indicates that you think that Islamic Law is not practical and is just about restrictions for the sake of restrictions.
This is nothing but your own shortsightedness.
Besides, you should be here to learn, not to mock Muslims and thier teachings/injunctions.

The trouble with your above statement is that you have provided no explanation as to why a simple common everyday thing to us 'westerners', as you earlier referred to us, as a handshake is imoral. The one reference I did see said 'to touch' a woman. This is very ambiguous and could be interpreted in any number of ways. And I am here to learn more about muslims but that does not mean that I am here to blindly accept every muslim's views or interpretations. It seems to me that you personaly have done little but insult the intelligence and the integrity of all the non-muslims that have come here in the hope of better understanding. You even gloated at getting one poster banned. You are a poor ambasador for your faith.

[I, Brian]

No, Tao_Equus - you misunderstand the situation and the arguements raised in this thread.

There is a specific proscription within Islam that explicitly prohibits touching women who are strangers. Therefore there is a will to observe this within Islam.

Of course, non-Muslims cannot be expected to blindly follow Muslim belief, but we should respect their views where possible.

Please also note that thipps is the moderators for the Islam section, not least because of his patient and friendly manner he normally addresses issues raised in this forum.

Also please note that the member who was banned made a concerted attempt to attack Muslim members here, and additionally used multiple aliases to try and do this when proceeding ones were banned. The member in question is now blocked across multiple IP ranges.

[Tao_Equus]

Sorry Brian, I read back through the thread in its enirety, as I had the first time.....and I stand by what I said above in relation to Thipps' insults. I will at some point get round to reading further threads and hope that what I have seen here was an abberation.

[I, Brian]

If you believe that thipps was insulting on this thread then that is your perogative to hold that opinion - however, please note that as a moderated community, it is generally unacceptable to start public discussions complaining about staff actions.

If *anybody* has any complaints about board staff - even myself - then please do feel free to raise them - in private. I have certainly dismissed and even banned moderators on other forums I admin, because of inappropriate activities, and will take any complaints seriously.

It is worth pointing out that this board is primarily for the discussion of Islam, and as there are issues touched upon in this thread which relate to various different threads here.

This thread itself is about the shaking of hands as a western custom being applied to the Muslim world, and I really wouldn't encourage this thread to be used for any purpose other than that.

If any person has any criticisms of how thipps has handled this thread then you are welcome to PM himself or myself with your personal suggestions.

[bloodnf]

There is a difference of opinion among muslims as to whether shaking the hands of the opposite member is allowed or not. However since belief is a personal matter it is up to each individual what they believe in and what restrictions they observe.

I have found that the Danes seem to be deliberately confrontational with muslims. If a person's religion forbids him to shake hands with a Woman than that restriction should be respected.

http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/S...=1119503546332