Should the Catholic church just Die Quietly?

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by Awaiting_the_fifth

Careful of what? Im not being deliberately beligerent here, I really dont understand.

Hmm neither am I.

[JJM]

Originally Posted by Awaiting_the_fifth

And yet we are now allowed to eat meat on Fridays, heretics are no longer burned at the stake and the question of whether angels exist has become a purely personel decision. Certainly the big point of "God made us Jesus saved us" cannot be altered, but the smaller points have changed many times in the last 2000 years.

Not eating meat on Fridays and the burning of Heretics where practices those aren't infallible what can't change is any proclamation on Faith an Morals. There is a difference between Tradition and tradition the first is infallible the second is simply a practice that can change just like the fact that in order to say mass you should have five candles burning in the sanctuary. But whether or not there is five candles doesn't actually matter and can't be infallible. However Contraception, homosexuality, and female priests are all part of the Faith and Morals and thus can be infallible. As for the Belief in angels sorry Quahom1 but it isn't now nor has it ever been optional. see the Catechism paragraph 328

[Bandit]

this topic is gooby gook.

so now i guess it is ok for Christians to go into the other religions here at CR & ask them if there religion should just quietly die & ask them to turn to Jesus & the Bible, making compromise of there beliefs . Of course we will use VERBAL ADVANTAGE , so it sounds like authority & blah blah...

[Awaiting_the_fifth]

Apologies if the thread title caused offence, it was simply intended to inspire debate and I corrected it in my initial thread. My question was simply how much should the Catholic Church ammend its doctrines (maybe the wrong word) to bring in more worshippers (hence bringing more people to God)

And yes, I would say it is absolutely acceptable for Christians to go to other boards and question beliefs there, I thought that was the point of this site.

[JJM]

Originally Posted by Awaiting_the_fifth

Apologies if the thread title caused offence, it was simply intended to inspire debate and I corrected it in my initial thread. My question was simply how much should the Catholic Church ammend its doctrines (maybe the wrong word) to bring in more worshippers (hence bringing more people to God)

However by changing the beliefs of Catholicism you bring people to a watered down version of Christ. For he is the Truth and we must spead the truth rather than give a portion of the truth others can feel comfortable with.

And this isn't meant to be upset or condesending or anything but I don't know how to convay other wise smilie or not. so... maybe.

[Abogado del Diablo]

Originally Posted by JJM

However by changing the beliefs of Catholicism you bring people to a watered down version of Christ. For he is the Truth and we must spead the truth rather than give a portion of the truth others can feel comfortable with.

And this isn't meant to be upset or condesending or anything but I don't know how to convay other wise smilie or not. so... maybe.

On the other hand, by questioning authority and tradition and seeking God for yourself, many have found a fuller experience of God for themselves. That's not to say that Catholics do not have such an experience. Many certainly do. But adhering to the authority of the Church is not the only way.

[miclason]

I'm sorry, I'm struggling on how to express this, forgive me if it is not too articulate...
Whenever Catholics felt there was a need for reform, new churches have emerged...but, Catholicism remained unchanged...I, for one, do not think that the Catholic church should change just to please people, or to become more "accepted" or to win more adepts...it is not about being popular, it's about teaching what (in the Catholic church's view) is right...it's the same for every church or religion, I think....now, I don't consider myself a Catholic precisely because there are so many disagreements between my way of seeing things and certain teachings of the Catholic church, but, I do not believe that the Catholic church should change just to accomodate me...this is one of the reasons, the main reason, why I haven't baptized my child as a Catholic, because I refuse to baptize my child just for social reasons (to be "proper" and host a party)...if, and when I baptize her in the Catholic church, I want to be able to commit - from my heart- that I will teach her in the ways of the chuch (Catholic or whichever else I finally chose)....but I don't want to compromise my own beliefs, that is why I remain on the "fringes" of Catholicism, because, this is the church that I have more affinity with - as I have stated before, perhaps mainly because I'm a bit more familiar with it than any other ...so, I keep praying: God, I believe, but increase my faith!....In the end, I believe, all religions bring us closer to God, so it doesn't really matter where you worship, so it doesn't matter which church is "larger" or more popular...as long as its members - regardless of their number - are brough closer to God....

[Kaldayen]

Well even if it doesn't please some people here, I do think that this topic is a huge issue and shouldn't be ignored. Many catholic ministers in my part of the world don't even recognize themselves in their own Church. There is a huge gap between what they have to teach and what they, themselves, believe. That's the whole point of the more liberal opinions inside catholicism.

If the Church doesn't adapt, it will "just Die Quietly" here. Just look at the empty churches and the age of the people who still go to church. I know I don't go there because they have to teach too many things I can't accept.

If catholicism really want to bring people closer to God, I personally believe they'll have to start teaching God's love instead of God's judgements...
___
Kal

[Faithfulservant]

Hmm

Originally Posted by Kaldayen

If the Church doesn't adapt, it will "just Die Quietly" here. Just look at the empty churches and the age of the people who still go to church. I know I don't go there because they have to teach too many things I can't accept.

___

Empty churches? Age groups? Hmm I dont know where you live but my church was full of younger people and is far from empty (3 full services on Sunday and 1 on Saturday).. OF course the church teaches love but it also teaches judgement and an aspect of the Spirit is a fear of God... it would not be a responsible bible teaching church if they did not teach what is written in the bible.

Isaiah 11:12 The Spirit of the Lord shall rest upon Him, The Spirit of wisdom and understanding, The Spirit of counsel and might, The Spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the Lord.

[Kaldayen]

Ya. well you're in Texas, I'm in Quebec. That's the situation I see.

[Faithfulservant]

Originally Posted by Kaldayen

Ya. well you're in Texas, I'm in Quebec. That's the situation I see.

Yes that may well be the problem.

[Dor]

Yep Texas in the good ole Bible belt )

[JJM]

Originally Posted by Abogado del Diablo

On the other hand, by questioning authority and tradition and seeking God for yourself, many have found a fuller experience of God for themselves. That's not to say that Catholics do not have such an experience. Many certainly do. But adhering to the authority of the Church is not the only way.

The problem with "seeking God for yourself" is that we end up worshiping who we want God to be and not who He actually is. Because God, within Christianity, isn't only a deity but the Objective Truth which governs the universe and because this is an Objective Truth and not a Subjective Truth everyone can't find it for themselves unless we all come to the same conclusion. However this perfection is beyond Human nature. Thus we need an infallible source to tell us what that Truth is (aka The Catholic Church). Now there isn't anything wrong with questioning the teachings of the Catholic Church to better understand them, but if you are sincerely finding the Truth you will end up realizing it was right in the first place. And if for some reason you don’t then you should leave the Church. However this is the premise of the Catholic Church’s existence. So deny this would be to undermine the very idea of a Catholic Church and thus it must cease to be before it secedes to this.

[JJM]

Originally Posted by JJM

it secedes to this.

secedes should be concedes

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by JJM

The problem with "seeking God for yourself" is that we end up worshiping who we want God to be and not who He actually is. Because God, within Christianity, isn't only a deity but the Objective Truth which governs the universe and because this is an Objective Truth and not a Subjective Truth everyone can't find it for themselves unless we all come to the same conclusion. However this perfection is beyond Human nature. Thus we need an infallible source to tell us what that Truth is (aka The Catholic Church). Now there isn't anything wrong with questioning the teachings of the Catholic Church to better understand them, but if you are sincerely finding the Truth you will end up realizing it was right in the first place. And if for some reason you don’t then you should leave the Church. However this is the premise of the Catholic Church’s existence. So deny this would be to undermine the very idea of a Catholic Church and thus it must cease to be before it secedes to this.

This is where we disagree. The whole point of life is to seek God for self. Personal God, for personal self. I don't need any church, affiliation, congregation, or sect, creed, or institution, for salvation. I need Jesus. Mary and all the Saints are great, but not paramount to salvation. Jesus is THE Deity. The Trinity is real, Not a concept. We don't need any "infallible" source to tell us anything but what we've been told since day one. Jesus is Lord, and Savior...

Perhaps I should call myself a Celtic Catholic, instead of a Roman Catholic. Maybe that would make some feel better (naw, just start a whole new thread).

That is my take. Fortunately, no one here is in a position to have me excommunicated.

We agree to disagree.

v/r

Q