Interafaith: Comparative religion: world religions

Go Back   Interfaith forums > Religion, Faith, and Theology > Comparative Studies

Comparative Studies Comparing religious beliefs across human history and cultures

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread
Old 03-16-2012, 12:16 AM   #1 (permalink)
freesoul
 
salishan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Oregon coast
Posts: 92
salishan is on a distinguished road
Question sins of the father (visited upon the sons to the 3rd & 4th generation)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Numbers 14:18

i Yahweh punish the guilty

the sins of the father
will be visited upon his children
to the 3rd & to the 4th generation
even after a statement about Gyd's love & forgiveness , immediately before
this pronouncement is pretty harsh stuff
children paying for the crimes of their father
(or crimes of their grandfather or crimes of their great-grandfather)

this kind of harsh sentiment can be found elsewhere in the "Old Testament"
(Exodus 20:5 & where it is repeated in Deuteronomy 5:9 , also Jeremiah 32:18) which
makes many Christians uneasy (to turn more frequently to the New Testament for guidance)

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

but if u treat the statement more as an observation upon "human nature"
(rather than upon Gyd's apparent stern-unfairness)
the statement seems a good-deal less cruel

we know from many many studies that the child of an abusive parent
has a statistically far-higher likelihood of becoming an abuser themself
& of passing this abusive behavior down to the next generation , then to the next

that is why it is so important to work hard with damaged children (& adults)
to stop the cycle of abuse
before the next generation is "trained" (conditioned) to be abusive , too

this idea of the sheer weight of iniquity passing from generation to generation
is not just found in the Hebrew Bible , but found
in Euripides (Phrixus 970) & in Shakespeare (Merchant of Venice A3:s5)

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

such biblical quotes , taken out of their larger context
give the Hebrew Bible a bit of bad rap

the way to earn forgiveness (for self & for future generations) is
righteousness
turning one's life around , doing the right thing
(& teaching this ethic to one's children)

this is how the world improves
(& this is where Gyd's footprint shows)

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deuteronomy 24:16

parent must not be punished for the mortal-sin of the child
nor child punished for a mortal-sin committed by her or his parent
no , a person is responsible only for their own crime
righteousness

salishan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2012, 12:33 AM   #2 (permalink)
IAMTHATIAMNOT
 
Etu Malku's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,416
Etu Malku has a spectacular aura aboutEtu Malku has a spectacular aura about
Re: sins of the father (visited upon the sons to the 3rd & 4th generation)

The god of the OT is plain and simple an evil, violent, jealous god.
Etu Malku is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2012, 01:23 PM   #3 (permalink)
Quaker-in-the-Making
 
radarmark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Yellow Springs Ohio USA
Posts: 3,212
radarmark has a spectacular aura aboutradarmark has a spectacular aura aboutradarmark has a spectacular aura about
Re: sins of the father (visited upon the sons to the 3rd & 4th generation)

I go with the "do not take action until you have considered the impact on the seventh generation" (see Code of Handsome Lake) rather than this. The passage in Numbers is an affront to a loving and righteous G!d if applied blindly. It was probably an improvement over the "kill them all" attitude of early bronze age people (who were, after all the descendents of the Neanderthal killers).

I do like you take on it Salishan... "but if u treat the statement more as an observation upon "human nature" (rather than upon Gyd's apparent stern-unfairness) the statement seems a good-deal less cruel." As the victim of childhood abuse, I must admit that I do not have children because it scared me that I would continue.
radarmark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2012, 02:37 PM   #4 (permalink)
Gnōthi seauton
 
taijasi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Terra Firma
Posts: 2,639
taijasi will become famous soon enough
Re: sins of the father (visited upon the sons to the 3rd & 4th generation)

The 7th Generation, if understood as one's own subsequent 6th or 7th reincarnation, is far more likely to hit you squarely IN THE FOREHEAD before you go and do something offensive, stupid or unnecessary (even if impacting primarily you and only you) ...

... than if you're just sitting around feeling sympathetic about those poor bastards - or in this case - non-bastards ... coming down the line.

I don't care HOW MUCH you love your own family, or your own flesh & blood. Apparently that doesn't mean JACK if you're Republican, Tea-bagging it or convinced you're some kind of war hero (aka survivalist? what do these idiots call themselves now? you know, the self-deluded `patriots').

The bottom line? If told that "you are screwing things up for yourself," then this is the surest way to get people to see the foolishness of their actions. Go back, reread with this understanding ... and this teaching will make by far a great deal more sense than if we try to bend and fit the scriptures to our modern-day, secularized, watered-down and more convenient interpretations.

I'm not denying that what we does impacts every other being on the planet, your own family included - and quite often, soonest. I'm just showing that there is a deeper, more direct meaning which this 7th generation business has always referred to. If it doesn't mean the same thing yet to and for you ... just give it awhile. Come back to it later. See if your take on things hasn't changed.
taijasi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2012, 03:34 PM   #5 (permalink)
Quaker-in-the-Making
 
radarmark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Yellow Springs Ohio USA
Posts: 3,212
radarmark has a spectacular aura aboutradarmark has a spectacular aura aboutradarmark has a spectacular aura about
Re: sins of the father (visited upon the sons to the 3rd & 4th generation)

"This 7th Generation Business" is a part of Native American Spirituality. I do not talk condenscendingly about yours, please return the favor (Tecumseh said about 200 years ago, "Trouble no one about their religion; respect others in their view, and demand that they respect yours"). You may think it was made up or something trendy... just use wiki.
Seven generation sustainability - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
radarmark is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The Godhead Gatekeeper Christianity 68 04-04-2011 06:55 PM
john1;1-2 mee Christianity 51 05-31-2010 04:00 PM
Jesus is not God ..... Part 3 Ben57 Christianity 43 09-15-2008 08:42 AM
this generation mee Christianity 46 11-16-2006 04:51 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 04:01 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.2.0 ©2008, Crawlability, Inc.