Slowly ending samsara - Page 2

Vajradhara · 12-23-2004, 06:25 PM

Namaste Ryuuko,

thank you for the post.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryuuko

Namasté Vajradhara,

I've always thought that once we have learned the lessons we had to learn in this life, we make a transition into a new life, and not necessarily on Earth. Is this what Buddhists believe, or is rebirth solely applicable to another life on Earth?

Buddhist rebirth is not restricted to this one planet, earth

Ryuuko · 12-23-2004, 06:30 PM

Namasté Vajradhara,

Thank you--this is very interesting. In light of what you've just mentioned, would you know if souls (I use this loosely--perhaps "consciousness" would be a better word?) would be rebirthed immediately, or is there pause between births?

Vajradhara · 12-23-2004, 08:36 PM

Namaste Ryuuko,

thank you for the post and the kind words.

this is a very specific question, as such, i shall try to give you all three views.

the Theravedan view, primarily, is that there is no lapse of time between death and rebirth.

most of the Mahayana schools posit that there is a bit of time, though it varies... the consistent thing regarding their views is that they generally feel that the process is quite automatic.

from the view of the Vajrayana, which is what i practice, these other two views are not complete. in our teachings, the term is called Bardo. a Bardo is the, for want of a better term, the moment prior to the next arising of consciousness. so.. we have Bardos in everyday life and during the transition period (when rebirth happens).

in our tradition, we generally say that there are 49 days between the Bardo of Dissolution and the Bardo of Becoming, though this figure isn't exact, it can vary with the individual being.

you might say that the Vajrayana is extraordinarily concerned with the transitional process. Padmasambhava, who brought Buddhism to Tibet, brought the Tantric teachings of the Diamond Thunderbolt, in particular, and has given specific teachings on how to practice the Bardo states prior to the Bardo of Dissolution. in point of fact, in our view, this is the single greatest opportunity for liberation that most sentient beings will have.

i've posted one of the teachings here:

http://www.comparative-religion.com/...ead.php?t=1534

Ryuuko · 12-23-2004, 10:17 PM

Thank you Vajradhara for your informative post. Does the Vajrayana path explain what happens between the two bardos?

Vajradhara · 12-25-2004, 03:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryuuko

Thank you Vajradhara for your informative post. Does the Vajrayana path explain what happens between the two bardos?

My pleasure.

absolutely. you could say that is one of it's primary focuses during practice.

Ryuuko · 12-25-2004, 02:47 PM

So what does happen then? Could you point out any articles that deal with this?

Vajradhara · 12-28-2004, 04:21 PM

Namaste Ryuuko,

thank you for the post.

typically, this is a matter for personal instruction as it has to do with capacities and understandings and all of that sort of thing which your teacher should have a fair grasp of.

in the meantime, if you are interested, you can certain visit this site to get the top down over view, as it were:

http://www.khandro.net/mustardseed_1.htm

Ryuuko · 12-28-2004, 04:33 PM

Thank you Vajradhara. It's interesting how this can be a matter of personal instruction. I gather that Buddhists can formulate their own opinions on this subject?

Vajradhara · 12-28-2004, 04:45 PM

Namaste Ryuuko,

thank you for the post.

sure Buddhists can have all manner of views regarding this issue... however, if you are interested in how it's understood through the Vajrayana, it's a personal matter... along with the Pointing Out instructions, i should add.

Vajrayana Buddhism is fairly different from Mahayana and Hinyana Buddhism in many respects, one of which is the role of the teacher and student. as every sentient being has a different capacity to understand the Dharma, the teachers job is to present the teaching within the students capacity so that they can actualize the teachings rather than intelletually assent to them, if that makes sense.

Ryuuko · 12-28-2004, 04:57 PM

Namasté Vajradhara,

You're welcome, and thank you for yours. What do you mean by the "Pointing Out" instructions, if I may ask?

Your point about intellectually assenting to them makes a lot of sense. I understand this as the difference between agreeing on a theory and actually living the same theory. I don't know if that, in turn, makes sense!

Since we're on the topic of samsara, I remember you saying at one point that you always have your mala with you, since killing another being while driving is quite high. How would you use your mala, or more precisely, how would the mala prevent you from increasing your negative karma?

Vajradhara · 12-28-2004, 08:05 PM

Namaste Ryuuko,

thank you for the post.

i have forgotten.. how are you making the accent on the e? <ctrl +num pad 1>?

the "pointing out" instructions are particular to Vajrayana Buddhism in this formulation, though this same sort of thing exists in all Buddhist schools. essentially, the pointing out instructions are used to introduce a being to the fudamental nature of their consciousness, and as each being varies in it's capacity to understand, it's a personal teaching given to the student from the teacher when the timing is correct.

agreed. i know many people that can intellecutally assent to proposition yet fail to actualize said proposition. this is one of the reasons why Buddhism puts such a strong emphasis on personal experience rather than acceptance of someone elses personal experience.

that's true, i do have it with me at nearly all times. sometimes at home i don't have it handy.. but it's close enough

there are several things that we, as Buddhists, can do to help other sentient beings when they are in the Transitional Phase of the Bardos, and a lot of it has to do with when the sentient being ceased to arise in this world system. if the beings' passing was recent, say you hit a deer with your car, you would take slightly different actions than if you were just finding out about a death from several months or years ago. of course, this is also predicated on our own level of practice.

my Gurus' Tulku explains it from a more engaged Buddhist point of view, if you'd like to read this link:

http://www.lamayeshe.com/lamazopa/animals.shtml

now... what is being talked about here is a gereneralized sort of statement as there are other, more powerful things, that we can do at the correct time. one of which is called Phowa, which you can read about here:

http://www.khandro.net/mustardseed_phowa1.htm

Ryuuko · 12-28-2004, 08:20 PM

Namasté Vajradhara,

Thank you for your post. the "é" can be inserted by typing with a french keyboard layout (the key is to the left of the period on most keyboards) or by typing ALT + 130. This shoulc work.

I found the first link very interesting--Having heard some of these mantras before, such as the Chenrezig mantra and the Medicine Buddha Mantra, I didn't know exactly what they meant, but now I do. Thanks!