So how about these cartoons then, eh?

[Faustus]

I found this part of the article particularly interesting:

And the charge has now gained currency in the Arab world. The Syrian defence minister, Mustafa Tlass, has written a book repeating the accusation, while some journalists continue to use it as part of the rhetorical war against Israel.

Bolding mine. So the Syrians, the ones who are allowing the burning of embassies and whipping up quite the furor over how offensive this whole thing is, are at the same time publishing books propogating the ridiculous blood libel myth. So much for righteous indigantion, I guess. To me, this kind of thing is the height of hypocrisy. Remove the mote from your own eye, and all of that.

As for never having heard of it, I've actually had people on the internet try to level that accusation at me. Idiots. Anyone who knows anything about Judaism and the huge lengths to which dietary restrictions go to prohibit the eating/drinking of blood knows how completely absurd the blood libel is. And just for the record, trying to propogate that particular myth is every bit as offensive to most Jewish people as the cartoons of Mohammed were to Muslims. We're talking about something that has been used to justify pogroms, murders and bigotry for centuries here. For shame, Syria- I dislike using offense as a justification for violence, but I like hypocrisy even less.

I do think that the bulk of Muslims, while they might be offended by these cartoons, aren't out in the streets calling for beheadings. I've said that already, but I'll keep repeating it, because it's important to say over and over again. As I said before, if I were a moderate Muslim, I would be outraged at what these people are doing (the embassy burnings and so on)- they're hijacking an otherwise good religion with plenty to contribute, and that's just not on, IMHO. And, of course, protesting for the "religion of peace" with violence is somewhat counterproductive.

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by truthseeker

Thank you for sharing, Faithfulservant.

What was interesting was I actually thought it was funny....
What does that mean?

It means that if Jesus could sell us eternal life, he could sell us anything, including cigarettes. In other words, Jesus was blowing smoke up our back sides when he toughted eternal life.

It is an extremely distasteful cartoon, with an insulting message.

"Warning, the Surgeon General has determined that following Jesus could be hazardous to your health..."

v/r

Q

[Faustus]

Ah, but couldn't it be seen as a commentary on the commercialization of Jesus? It seems that in certain sectors, Christianity has become quite commercialized- trendy "teen" Bibles, WWJD bracelets, shirts and everything practically down to underwear, shoe insoles... maybe it's just a matter of time before he's being used to hawk a "righteous" brand of cigarettes.

Your interpretation is probably more likely, but you never know.

[Awaiting_the_fifth]

Originally Posted by suanni

There seems to be a very definite anti Muslim slant in the West at the moment

It never used to be like this, even after 9/11 the general feeling was that this was the work of a few extremists and not reflective of all of Islam. But since then it seems like there is a different story in the media every week about what some particular individual or group of muslims has done. Terror attacks, planned terror attacks, recruiting in mosques, female circumcision, the father who killed his own daughter because she was too "western". Soldiers on alert at an airport, another cleric arrested and another mosque raided. No one in the western world can escape the headlines or the images.

Furthermore, most people now know someone who has been close to a bomb blast or lived near a recruiting mosque, it isnt a distant media story any more, it's real.

Every time a new story emerges I find one more person saying that all muslims are bad. How many outrages can our society take before we're all thinking like that?

I hate to be writing this post, I really do. I am not in any way anti-muslim and I do not hold all muslims accountable for the actions of a few, I can't stand racist people, I've lost a very old friend because he now openly admits to hating muslims and I just can't talk to him any more. Now I just keep wondering how long it will be before I too am cheering along in agreement at a BNP rally!

Yes, it is true, there is a slight anti muslim slant in the west, and it is growing. I am scared of it, I don't want my country to end up like 1930s Germany, I want to stop having to be carefull what I talk about in the pub.

Problem is I just don't have a clue what to do about it.

I don't really know where I'm going with this post, I just felt like I had to say that.

Peace
ATF

[didymus]

When did this trend start of people leaving their country for a better life and upon arriving to the host country not assimilating, not learning the language, complaining about government and injustice and racism? Not to mention demanding things. You work for it like everyone else did. Some people live well because their parents and grandparents worked their asses off for it and their kids are reaping the benefits. What makes you think you are owed anything?

I think the anger that some people have toward their own people and country gets suppressed and then they find a safe venue where they can vent. Once found then they explode because they know they won't be executed for it. I think people need to address the issues in their own countries first. If you don't like the way the government works, go home to your own place. And on top of that we as westerners shouldn't meddle in other people's affairs. Live and let Live.

We westerners, if we all decided we were going to move to Belize and started raising hell and demanding equality how often would we get it? Would the governement work overtime and lose sleep over our plight? Heck no. We'd be told to go defecate in our hat. Don't you think?
I know this post is off the topic but in a way it isn't. The reason that we are fighting so much is because we all hold expectations of others that are unrealistic. People get mad and they retaliate.

[juantoo3]

Kindest Regards, all!

I haven't read the entire thread, but to the OP:

I think freedom of speech is a poor excuse for insulting and disrespectful behavior. Freedom of speech does not include yelling "fire" in a crowded theater unless there is an actual fire.

Having said this, I do think the reaction is way out of proportion to the offense, and the violence is pointed in the wrong direction.

Forgive my bluntness, but a culture that speaks to being one of love and peace is certainly not showing that by its actions. Actions speak far louder than words, freedom of speech bedamned.

[Vajradhara]

Namaste all,

there is something not quite right here.....

whilst it is all well and good to say that Islam prohibits images of the Prophet, the fact of the matter is that depicting the Prophet has been and, i suspect, will continue to be engaged in.

here's a link to Islamic full depictions of the Prophet:

http://www.xs4all.nl/~jult/free/isla...ull/index.html

some of these go back to the 1300's.

here are some more Islamic depictions with the Prophets face hidden:

http://www.xs4all.nl/~jult/free/isla...den/index.html


so.. with a history of depicting the Prophet which goes back to the 1300's, if not earlier, i remain unconvinced that the level of indignation is porportionate to the offense, if there was one even comitted.

hmm...

metta,

~v

[Quahom1]

At the risk of being rude...one can not have their cake and eat it too.

[Quahom1]

MSNBC staff and news service reports
Updated: 6:14 p.m. ET Feb. 17, 2006

TRIPOLI, Libya - The publication of cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad continued to send shock waves around the world Friday as protesters set fire to the Italian consulate in Benghazi, Libya, and clashed with police hours after an Islamic cleric in Pakistan offered a $1 million reward for killing one of the cartoonists.

Libyan security officials said 11 protesters were killed or wounded in the clashes in Benghazi.

An Italian consular official, Antonio Simoes-Goncalves, put the death toll at nine and said several more had been wounded as armed police clashed with a crowd of more than 1,000 demonstrators.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11383819/

This is absolute insanity.

And in another insane maneuver, Iran orders Britian out of Iraq...

Let us understand these cartoons were published in September of 2005, and six months later there comes a backlash of this magnitude?! What is up with that?

"...med Yousaf Qureshi, prayer leader at the historic Mohabat Khan mosque in the conservative northwestern city of Peshawar, announced the mosque and the Jamia Ashrafia religious school he leads would give a $25,000 reward and a car for killing the cartoonist who drew the prophet caricatures — considered blasphemous by Muslims.
getCSS("3053751")

He also said a local jewelers’ association would give $1 million, but no representative of the association was available to confirm the offer.

“Whoever has done this despicable and shameful act, he has challenged the honor of Muslims. Whoever will kill this cursed man, he will get $1 million from the association of the jewelers bazaar, 1 million rupees ($16,700) from Masjid Mohabat Khan and 500,000 rupees ($8,350) and a car from Jamia Ashrafia as a reward,” Qureshi told about 1,000 people outside the mosque after Friday prayers.

“This is a unanimous decision by all imams (prayer leaders) of Islam that whoever insults the prophets deserves to be killed and whoever will take this insulting man to his end, will get this prize.”"

This man is not doing much to forward the understanding of and good will towards Islam. In fact I suspect he has just done irreperable harm to the faith.

Now, every Arabic Muslim who comes down the pike will be looked at as a potential "bounty hunter". Talk about profiling, the IMAM just locked the stereotype in!

Think about it. "Kill the Infidel and live...get a million dollars and a car...die and go to heaven". That would appear to be a win/win situation to someone with no money or living on meager means, or a fanatic.

It also shows how fast the Islamic faith can apparently switch "gods", from Allah, the All Merciful, to the Almighty Dollar...at least according to the Cleric that made the announcement to the world...

Interesting faith...

v/r

Q

[Faustus]

Wow. Incredibly screwed up.

These people really aren't doing much to counteract the arguments of people who say the Middle East should just be turned into a parking lot (which is something I don't believe at all, just to make that clear, but when idiots like this imam get going, attitudes like that become far easier to justify). I wonder if they realize at all how completely unhinged and out of touch with reality they sound. Surely they must sound that way to moderate Muslims, as well.

None of this makes me feel remotely comfortable at the prospect of Iran potentially having nuclear weapons, incidentally. If they're looking to provoke some kind of action taken against their country, they're certainly doing a good job of it. The more this kind of thing comes out of Iran, the less likely the general public is going to be to just sit back and hope for a diplomatic solution- simply because the prospect of a nuke in the hands of someone like the Ayatollah or this imam is a tad too risky to ignore.

[I, Brian]

I'm curious - if the original cartoons were published in Egypt in November, why have the protests occured now?

I can't help but wonder if this hasn't been an orchestrated political event - interesting to note that the protests seem to have originated in Syria.

[Faustus]

I don't doubt for a second that all of this violence is being permitted/encouraged for some political reason. I don't think that Syria and Libya, both countries with poor human rights records and plenty of ability to crack right down on these protests if they felt the inclination were somehow helpless to stop the protestors. They're allowing this to happen. I'm sure it's good for distracting the masses from various iniquities within their own countries, though, which is probably what the people in charge are after. The Palestinian situation has certainly helped a number of Middle Eastern countries in this regard, after all.

[suanni]

Originally Posted by Faustus

Wow. Incredibly screwed up.

These people really aren't doing much to counteract the arguments of people who say the Middle East should just be turned into a parking lot (which is something I don't believe at all, just to make that clear, but when idiots like this imam get going, attitudes like that become far easier to justify). I wonder if they realize at all how completely unhinged and out of touch with reality they sound. Surely they must sound that way to moderate Muslims, as well.

.

It makes you wonder if the ordinary German people felt this way about Hitler when he started.
There's something very amiss with all of this.

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by suanni

It makes you wonder if the ordinary German people felt this way about Hitler when he started.
There's something very amiss with all of this.

Very good point Suanni. Less than 10 percent of the Germans were Nazi Party members at the beginning of World War II. four percent joined because it was that or else lose one's job. So in reality, the hard core of the Nazi party consisted of six percent of the population, or 5 million out of 90 million.

v/r

Q

[Faustus]

Yes, but look at what happened because the bulk of the other 94% didn't bother to stand up or offer more than some token resistance. A world war, 2/3 of the world's Jewish population systematically murdered while everyone sat around and did next to nothing, some five million Gypsies, gays, mentally retarded, Communists and others slaughtered, plus all of the war dead. Six percent might have been hard core Nazi, but it certainly took more than that six percent to invade half of Europe and tactfully ignore places like Bergen-Belsen and Auschwitz. I think it's a fairly potent reminder of the cost of complacency. As the poem says:

First they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew. Then they came for the Communists and I did not speak out because I was not a Communist. Then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist. Then they came for me and there was no one left to speak out for me.