so when a saved person goes to heaven - Page 4

cyberpi · 10-06-2006, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wil

What we need is respect for others beliefs, which includes not foisting ours down their throats (he says with the plunger of love in his hand)

LOL! So it is plunge for others as you would want them to plunge for yourself? I bet a survey would show that most people prefer it when others plunge their own.

I think Faith is the right word... not just a belief or trust, but doing per the will of another... respecting and serving the commandments of others. Any tool is effective when people jointly agree how it is to be used. Jesus (pbuh) did not serve everyone though. Perhaps that is the difference between servant, servitude, and master plunger.

Student1975 · 10-06-2006, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mee

i like to read the whole of the bible as it harmonizes throughout.

Try to let the Bible speak for itself. Read one book in the Bible at the time. I recommend you start with the New Testament books. Consider the context of the book, of the chapter, of the passage, make a note of all the cases where the JW magazines take scripture out of context or teaches in opposition to scripture.

The JW beliefsystem does not claim it's "Bible only", but at least this should be an eye opener to you so you see that your beliefs are not based on "the whole of the bible as it harmonizes throughout", unlike what the JW propaganda machine says.

InLove · 10-06-2006, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyberpi

Jesus (pbuh) did not serve everyone though.

Hi, cyberpi.

Not looking for an ongoing argument here, but I just want to point out that many people do not share your opinion or belief about this. To most Christians, Jesus was the ultimate servant.

InPeace,
InLove

cyberpi · 10-06-2006, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by InLove

Hi, cyberpi.

Not looking for an ongoing argument here, but I just want to point out that many people do not share your opinion or belief about this. To most Christians, Jesus was the ultimate servant.

InPeace,
InLove

Why, because I point out the 'selective' attribute of service? Perhaps then the many people can explain this scripture:

Matthew 6:24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon.

John 8:34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

Matthew 4:10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

Matthew 25:30 (In parable) And cast you the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Luke 23:8-9 And when Herod saw Jesus, he was exceeding glad: for he was desirous to see him of a long season, because he had heard many things of him; and he hoped to have seen some miracle done by him. Then he questioned with him in many words; but he answered him nothing.

Matthew 21:27 And they answered Jesus, and said, We cannot tell. And he said unto them, Neither tell I you by what authority I do these things.

Matthew 7:6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast you your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

Matthew 15:25-26 (At first rejecting help) Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me. But he answered and said, "It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs."

Faithfulservant · 10-07-2006, 12:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadowman

i wasnt there when he gave it to us.

and i do read it.

another question.

when is the bible being symbolic and when is it not?

If you were listening to someone tell a story.. can you recognize when someone is using symbols? lol its common sense... He used symbols within dreams.. He used symbols when foreshadowing important events.. like the Lords Supper foreshadowing Christs death on the cross.

Faithfulservant · 10-07-2006, 12:46 AM

As I understand it 144k will be rulers in heaven, this remainder of those that make it servants? But I still don't understand why they still knock on doors to decrease the likelyhood they are one of the 144k...guess that is dedication.

Sorry this is false theology according to my faith... next.

Of course I think it is all the same G-d, and I also think none of us will truly know until we get there. With all the folks who claim they know, and all the folks who claim they've had an experience with the divine, and all the varied accounts and explanations for what is and what will be...it appears they can't all be right, but I think they can't all be wrong either.

No.. mee is guilty of idol worshipping according to my bible...

What we need is respect for others beliefs, which includes not foisting ours down their throats (he says with the plunger of love in his hand)

gee I had the same thought.. go figure

BlaznFattyz · 10-07-2006, 12:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyberpi

Why, because I point out the 'selective' attribute of service? Perhaps then the many people can explain this scripture:

Luke 23:8-9 And when Herod saw Jesus, he was exceeding glad: for he was desirous to see him of a long season, because he had heard many things of him; and he hoped to have seen some miracle done by him. Then he questioned with him in many words; but he answered him nothing.

He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he opened not his mouth.

InLove · 10-07-2006, 02:46 AM

Hi again cyberpi--

I may be misunderstanding your premise. If so, I do apologize for interrupting with irrelevent comments. Of course Jesus did not come to serve money, or sin, or Satan. And He did not come to serve Herod in the way Herod thought he should--but many Christians believe that He did offer Himself as Servant to all of humankind.

Like I said, maybe I am a little confused as to what you are trying to say, since I am not understanding the relevence of the Scriptures you have quoted.

I'll check back whenever I can--I am out of pocket for a few days, and not on my own computer.

InPeace,
InLove

Quahom1 · 10-07-2006, 02:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlaznFattyz

He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he opened not his mouth.

Last time I checked, silence is not an admission of guilt. Nor does the court observe that as stupid or dumb.

BlaznFattyz · 10-07-2006, 03:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Last time I checked, silence is not an admission of guilt. Nor does the court observe that as stupid or dumb.

in reference to the prophecy of jesus in the presence of king herod in Isaiah 53:7, some bibles substitute dumb for mute. so its not dumb like intelligence, its dumb like not speaking.

Quahom1 · 10-07-2006, 03:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlaznFattyz

in reference to the prophecy of jesus in the presence of king herod in Isaiah 53:7, some bibles substitute dumb for mute. so its not dumb like intelligence, its dumb like not speaking.

that is my take. What did He have to say to justify Himself? What was He guilty of? He'd already spoken His mind, declared Himself. Anything else was stupid to speak of, so...He remained silent.

mee · 10-07-2006, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Student1975

Try to let the Bible speak for itself. Read one book in the Bible at the time. I recommend you start with the New Testament books. Consider the context of the book, of the chapter, of the passage, make a note of all the cases where the JW magazines take scripture out of context or teaches in opposition to scripture.

The JW beliefsystem does not claim it's "Bible only", but at least this should be an eye opener to you so you see that your beliefs are not based on "the whole of the bible as it harmonizes throughout", unlike what the JW propaganda machine says.

yes my eyes have been well and truely opened, i can see that JW base all of their beliefs on the word of God the bible . and that is what they focus on as all christians should. Jesus left all christians the command to GO and make disciples matthew 28-19-20 and they have remained faithful to Jesus christ . and faithfulness leads to great blessings from Jesus christ . yes my eyes have been well and truely opened to who is faithful and who is not faithful. taste and see that Jehovah is good.

Taste and see that Jehovah is good, O YOU people;

Happy is the able-bodied man that takes refuge in him. psalm 34;8

mee · 10-07-2006, 01:06 PM

here is an interesting thought , the contrast that John draws between verses 4 and 9 of Revelation chapter 7. He states that the first group, "those who were sealed," has a definite number. However, the second group, "a great crowd," is without a definite number. With that in mind, it is logical to take the number 144,000 to be literal. If the number 144,000 were symbolic and referred to a group that is actually numberless, the force of the contrast between those two verses would be lost. Thus, the context strongly indicates that the number 144,000 must be taken literally.

Faithfulservant · 10-07-2006, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mee

Taste and see that Jehovah is good, O YOU people;

Happy is the able-bodied man that takes refuge in him. psalm 34;8

Oh, taste and see that the Lord is good; Blessed is the man who trusts in Him!

mee · 10-07-2006, 03:21 PM

Jehovah gave his only-begotten Son as a ransom sacrifice that opened the way to heavenly life for 144,000 humans and eternal earthly prospects for the rest of mankind. (1 John 2:1, 2)