Something every Buddhist should read concering heaven and hell...

bodhi_mindisfree · 11-08-2006, 04:08 AM

The following is a section of Essential Buddhism by Jack MaGuire, page 27:

A big tough samurai one went to see a little monk. In a voice accustomed to meeting with obedience, the samurai said, "Monk, teach me about heaven and hell."
The monk looked up at this mighty warrior and replied in a voice of utter contempt, "Teach you about heaven and hell? I couldn't teach you about anything. You're filthy. You stink. Your sword is rusty. You're a disgrace to the samurai class! Get out of my sight!"
The samurai was speechless with rage. His muscles bulged. His face got red. He swung his sword high above his head, preparing to slay the monk.
"That is hell," the monk said softly.
The samurai froze. Suddenly he was overwhelmed by the compassion of this tiny, defenseless man who had just risked death to give his teaching. As he slowly lowered his sword, he was filled with gratitude and wonder.
"That is heaven," the monk said softly.

toujour_333 · 11-08-2006, 04:14 AM

wow, i dont think that i have ever heard anything like that before. definitely very inspiring, to say the least. i guess that is a different viewpoint on buddhist cosmology, which i have been somewhat struggling with here as of late. but, i think im starting to get things sorted out for myself. but, either way, thanks for that teaching.

be well in peace

Snoopy · 11-08-2006, 10:27 AM

Hi toujour,

There are 101 such zen teachings in a classic (and very small!) book called Zen Flesh, Zen Bones compiled by Reps and Senzaki. First published about 30 years ago and still in print, I highly recommend it. As the saying goes, "if you only buy one book on zen..."

s.

SearchingDarkness · 11-08-2006, 04:49 PM

Hi Snoopy,
I've been perusing the threads on this site and I feel compelled to seek your guidance. Of all the postings, you appear to be very informed and I feel I relate the best to the way you think and your views. I also feel I would get a more direct answer from you without much fluff.

I was raised as a Christian, however, I soon began to lose faith in the religion and consequently I do not trust any organized religion. I am considering pursuing the teachings of Buddha, because I view faith as something personal, different for each person and that the most important thing in life; is not finding the right religion, but rather to constantly be seeking the truth.

I was hoping that you could guide me to any resources or lead me in the right direction. Please contact me directly as I have just stumbled on this site and as I am not sure if I will be back. Also not to bore the others that have already found their light in darkness.

I look forward to hearing from you.

Seeker

toujour_333 · 11-08-2006, 05:04 PM

snoopy,

i have heard of that book, however, have yet to check it out and read it. zen buddhism to me can be rather confusing at times, however, i also havent done suffecient research on it and its origins as well, so that may be why its a mystery to me. however, ill check that book out here soon. thanks for the suggestion.

be well in peace
toujour

Snoopy · 11-08-2006, 05:37 PM

Hi,

This is the edition I have:

Amazon.com: Zen Flesh, Zen Bones (Shambhala Pocket Classics): Books: Paul Reps

$1.99!!!!!!!!! and it fits into the smallest pocket.

OK I'll stop the sales pitch......

s.

Snoopy · 11-08-2006, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SearchingDarkness

Please contact me directly as I have just stumbled on this site and as I am not sure if I will be back. Also not to bore the others that have already found their light in darkness.

I look forward to hearing from you.

Seeker

Hi,

I'm presuming you mean PM you so that's what I'll do!......If not, post again!!

s.

No essential nature · 11-08-2006, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SearchingDarkness

I am considering pursuing the teachings of Buddha, because I view faith as something personal, different for each person and that the most important thing in life; is not finding the right religion, but rather to constantly be seeking the truth.

I was hoping that you could guide me to any resources or lead me in the right direction. Please contact me directly as I have just stumbled on this site and as I am not sure if I will be back. Also not to bore the others that have already found their light in darkness.

Admirable motivation! Sounds an excellent basis for approaching Buddhism.

On Zen, the Flesh & Bones book is not any kind of introduction, only thought provoking quotes and ideas. The actual practice of Zen is both much more formal and more intelligable than people expect, it has a great deal in common with other schools. However, it refuses much of the speculation which people use to characterise other schools.

Vajradhara · 11-08-2006, 10:28 PM

Namaste all,

indeed, this particular Mondo is part of a famous collection of Ch'an/Zen Koans and Mondos called The Blue Cliff Record which is an invaluable aid for those beings engaged upon this path.

for those that are interested:

Amazon.com: The Blue Cliff Record: Books: Thomas Cleary,J.C. Cleary,Taizan Maezumi Roshi

metta,

~v

Grace · 11-09-2006, 01:33 AM

Dear Searching Darkness,
I would like to reccommend a book called, "A New Evidence that Demands a Verdict." It presents the Historical Evidence for Christianity. I would suggest that before you decide against Christianity,that you look at the historical evidence for it. The birth, death, and resurrection of Jesus, is not just a religious revelation or myth, but it is something that is recognized as being historically correct. Even our calendars are dated for it. That would just be my suggestion.

SearchingDarkness · 11-14-2006, 12:18 AM

Thanks all to your responses. I had originally just wanted a PM from Snoopy, but perhaps there will be some value to keeping this discussion on the board. It just appeared to me that some people had different views which I would not find helpful. But then how would I know what doesn't seem right when I don't hear things that don't sound right to me?

I've been reading a little on Tao and from what I can ascertain, it seems like it deals a lot with absolutes; yin-yang in a sense. i.e. There must be bad for good to exist and vice versa. So therefore, I welcome all thoughts on Zen and beliefs in general.

I'll check out the literary sources quoted in previous posts and would love to discuss further in detail at the appropriate time. Meanwhile, Zen appears to be more and more something that I could relate to. Particularly "No Essential Nature"'s statement that Zen, "refuses much of the speculation which people use to characterize other schools."

That is one trait that I want to practice; you can call it humility, knowing that one train of thought is not superior or inferior to another. The way I see it, God is an ultimate higher being and as human beings; we flatter ourselves thinking that we could possibly comprehend all of God's thoughts. But that doesn't stop me from trying to attain as much enlightenment as my time alive allows.

In response to Grace's post; I am flattered. As a previous Christian, I know how much it means to try to spread Christianity unto others and I know how hard it can be sometimes; even anonymously (sp?) on a discussion board. However, my mind is made up about Christianity. My problem was, emphasis on MY rather than the religion itself, was that I would put my faith in Christians. I've come to learn that as human beings, we are inately evil if you will. As the Christian bible says, we are all born with sin and Christians would always fail me therefore making my belief waver. Eventually I got to a point where I didn't know what I believed in anymore.

They say; when you're lost you should go back to the beginning. So I did just that. I began as an Atheist and asked all the questions that I didn't dare to ask as a Christian. I received no answers from Christianity, at least nothing concrete since my faith in it had already crumbled. But then it hit me, much like the Law of Gravity hit Sir Isaac Newton. The answers were in nature, in us. I believe that God is in a forest, God is in a tree, God is in a leaf, God is in a seed, God is in us. Our bodies and nature are too perfect, to just be a mistake, a coincidence. I have too much respect for myself to believe that I evolved from a lower life form.

Grace, I don't doubt the existence of Jesus Christ. I haven't read that particular book, but I have seen and read the historical and scientific evidence for his existence myself. I've also read that more and more scientists are becoming Christians or at least Deists. However, I believe that he was misunderstood. Even the Christian bible states that the apostles had a hard time comprehending his teachings. I believe that over time, the evil nature of man has corrupted what Jesus Christ was trying to teach us and now it is lost forever in translation.

However, not all is lost I hope. I believe that the answers are in nature and in ourselves. If we can just quiet our consciousnes and delve into our subconscious, the majority of our brain, then more will be revealed to us. That is what I hope to attain from Buddhism, particularly the Zen school of thought.

SearchingDarkness · 11-14-2006, 12:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grace

The birth, death, and resurrection of Jesus, is not just a religious revelation or myth, but it is something that is recognized as being historically correct. Even our calendars are dated for it. That would just be my suggestion.

A side note, I would suggest not using the calendar as a reason to persuade a non-believer. Calendars are just a frame of reference. Asian cultures have a different traditional calendar, based on the moon cycles. And I believe ancient civilizations used various celestial bodies. Not to mention that the current, Gregorian, calendar has only been a worldwide standard for the past 400 years.

bodhi_mindisfree · 11-14-2006, 05:32 AM

Quote:

I would like to reccommend a book called, "A New Evidence that Demands a Verdict." It presents the Historical Evidence for Christianity. I would suggest that before you decide against Christianity,that you look at the historical evidence for it. The birth, death, and resurrection of Jesus, is not just a religious revelation or myth, but it is something that is recognized as being historically correct. Even our calendars are dated for it. That would just be my suggestion.

I disagree. My history textbooks mention nothing to support the claim of the resurrection of Jesus. This is a religious thing, not historical. And there is currently a change of dates with dating things. The current trend in colleges and universities is to use B.C.E., Before the Common Era and C.E., simply the Common Era. This is replacing B.C. and A.D. Therefore, please support a historical document or source from a credited historian saying the resurrection of Jesus is a legit historical claim.

Vajradhara · 11-14-2006, 01:06 PM

Namaste all,

Bodhi, your request would be more aptly placed on the Comparative sub-forum rather than here, should you wish to engage in a serious discussion about the evidence or lack thereof for the Christian paradigm.

metta,

~v

17th Angel · 11-14-2006, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bodhi_mindisfree

The following is a section of Essential Buddhism by Jack MaGuire, page 27:

A big tough samurai one went to see a little monk. In a voice accustomed to meeting with obedience, the samurai said, "Monk, teach me about heaven and hell."
The monk looked up at this mighty warrior and replied in a voice of utter contempt, "Teach you about heaven and hell? I couldn't teach you about anything. You're filthy. You stink. Your sword is rusty. You're a disgrace to the samurai class! Get out of my sight!"
The samurai was speechless with rage. His muscles bulged. His face got red. He swung his sword high above his head, preparing to slay the monk.
"That is hell," the monk said softly.
The samurai froze. Suddenly he was overwhelmed by the compassion of this tiny, defenseless man who had just risked death to give his teaching. As he slowly lowered his sword, he was filled with gratitude and wonder.
"That is heaven," the monk said softly.

That was truly an awesome story...