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Old 03-22-2003, 03:34 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Spiritual fascism


I have met quite a few people in life who claimed to be spiritual even somewhat enlightened yet these people I know have the very nerve to regard themselves as superior also and even state that those who are not as enlightened as they have no particular right of life.

This is Spiritual Fascism.

There is a spiritual truth that we are all equal, despite our diversity and that we should endeavour to love one another despite whatever faults we may perceive in each other.

Those who claim to be spiritual, yet regard as worthless others for no crime other than being different to they, are not spiritual people they are merely fascists with some limited measure of spiritual insight.

Spiritual people may be regarded so, not for their beliefs, not for theor thoughts, but for their humility. The humble do not elevate themselves. Those who are humble are greatest before God.

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Old 03-23-2003, 11:59 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Re:Spiritual fascism

This is a definite concern within Christianity. One of the things that pushes me more from it is the high atitude of superiority, the judementalism, the legalism, and the general ignorance of the words of Jesus. Spiritual fascism as you call it is endemic, even among those who appear as moderates with a friendly smile and wave. Inside they know you're going to Hell and they are not. It is a terrible situation.
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Old 03-29-2003, 01:31 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Re:Spiritual fascism

I now people like this and theyre anything in life.It seems like anybody can be like that.its not just religion. We should all just be cool to all 8)
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Old 04-11-2003, 02:58 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Re:Spiritual fascism

This is the most of the reason why I don't particularly care for organised religion. Most religions consider their teachings to be correct, and all the rest wrong. This is both arrogant and myopic, you will never become enlightened with an attitude like that. To anyone here that thinks I am going to burn in hell for that remark, no, I just don't believe the same as you, is that so hard to take on board. Sadly, for far too many people, it is.
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Old 04-15-2003, 08:05 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Re:Spiritual fascism


The trouble is, I see it everywhere. It really came to my attention in the "neo-hippie pot-smoking" crowd - and how they would speak of peace and love one moment, and then denigrate "trendies" and "townies" in a sometimes most incredible manner.

I finally figured that the problem wasn;t one of specific belief, but of social groups - of the human animal defining those in its own social group as friendly, as allies - but those outside of that social group as "enemies".

Religion certainly can play a part in it - but politics also espeicially - Hitler made the Germans redefine themselves emotionally and physically as a single unified social group - therefore all those outside of this were to be regarded as enemies. Of course, it helps to have a specifically targeted scapegoated enemy, and that's where the Jews and Romanies and others suffered for it.

So essentially, the root to defeating this insular notion of social groups is by defining humanity itself as a single social group. Of course, I'm sure there are many people who do - but when I define Foundationism proper I really need to remind myself to make a specific point of adding this.

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Old 07-10-2003, 11:33 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Re:Spiritual fascism

Namaste all,

i would term this Spiritual Materialism which is where the ego coopts the spiritual process and progress to aggradize itself.

Deepak Chopra has a great book called Cutting Through Spiritual Materialism that deals exactly with this and talks about how to prevent it from happening.
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Old 07-27-2003, 02:14 PM   #7 (permalink)
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"We are the chosen"
Perfect reason for joining any social or religious group. And very enticing for the seekers of knowledge to be told that they have found answers.
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Old 09-06-2003, 11:53 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Arch
"We are the chosen"
Perfect reason for joining any social or religious group. And very enticing for the seekers of knowledge to be told that they have found answers.
Anyone claiming they're enlightened and then looks down their noses at the rest of the world is lost in the arrogance of themselves. Enlightenment comes from finding and knowing your purpose in the world. If one is living on their spiritual purpose then the most likely outward example of that, is some sort of service to the rest of mankind or the earth. It is through service and purpose that one becomes enlightened.
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Old 10-12-2003, 08:27 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foundationist.org
The humble do not elevate themselves. Those who are humble are greatest before God.
I'm certainly not trying to be antagonistic, but this sounds like you're doing the same thing you're lambasting others for doing--claiming moral superiority of a certain group over others. What you've said sounds like another version of "God loves us better than he loves you."

Have I misunderstood you? Did you mispeak?
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Old 10-12-2003, 08:59 PM   #10 (permalink)
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I make no personal claims to be humble.

You make a very good point about judging others. Hopefully the point is more to prevent others claiming moral superiority for themselves, rather than anyone here making such specific claims for themselves.
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Old 10-12-2003, 09:30 PM   #11 (permalink)
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The "uber problem," IMHO, is one of judgmentalism. The way around it is ownership of feelings and beliefs.

Therefore, "you're an idiot" becomes, "I don't agree" or "I really dislike your saying x." "Those who are humble are greatest before God" becomes "I believe God prefers people who don't assume superiority over others." "You're a sinner" becomes "I'm worried about you," etc.

Granted, this is a difficult switch to make, but it is doable. Try it and see the difference for yourself.
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Old 10-15-2003, 09:15 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Certainly I quite agree - in my most spiritual phases, conflict is regarded as ultimately unnecessary and without purpose.

However, from spirituality may come conviction of belief. This does not mean to say that judgementalism therefore must take over - as much as making some form of stance as to what is perceived to be right and wrong.

Although there are different ways of expressing such views, ultimately a point remains - a spiritual truth, if you will - that we are all equal. If people claim to be spiritual, but advocate against spiritual equality, IMO it is like self-claimed peace activists taking to throwing petrol bombs.

There are, of course, different ways and words for framing such objections.
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Old 10-18-2003, 09:34 PM   #13 (permalink)
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I think the real question is why are we offended by a display of superiority. Do we assume another is wrong because he feels he is right?
Obviously on his journey he has found something that, whether right or wrong, has given him conviction enough to debase another.....in other words: he has fallen into wrong thinking and has taken the teachings of yet another as his own truth. To me this only means he has had a bad teacher who doesn't realize that his truth is not another's.
The beauty of Buddhism is that in the study of one's self (which doesn't exist) that cannot happen.
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Old 11-05-2003, 09:40 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vajradhara
Namaste all,

i would term this Spiritual Materialism which is where the ego coopts the spiritual process and progress to aggradize itself.

Deepak Chopra has a great book called Cutting Through Spiritual Materialism that deals exactly with this and talks about how to prevent it from happening.
I like to see Chopra adopts a frugal lifestyle, which can still be effective and even more effective in teaching people to cut through spiritual materialism.

The same also with Billy Graham and the Vatican popes, and Pat Robertson, and all similar personalities.

Can all these people who preach immaterial spiritualism live a life prescribed by Jesus Christ for his disciples: going forth without shoes and pockets and a second tunic or set of clothings? Yes, they can, but they won't because they are not. I will presume to judge them, truly, genuinly, non-compromisedly spiritual.

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Old 11-05-2003, 09:50 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Physician, heal thyself!

Quote:
Originally Posted by sachetm
I'm certainly not trying to be antagonistic, but this sounds like you're doing the same thing you're lambasting others for doing--claiming moral superiority of a certain group over others. What you've said sounds like another version of "God loves us better than he loves you."

Have I misunderstood you? Did you mispeak?
Touche (with acute accent mark at the ending 'e').

Very true, I have to watch out for that in myself.

Very often judging others to be materialistic is born of envy.

About spiritual fascism, I think it is the most natural instinct of humans to feel themselves superior to others in any way they can fashion to find superiority in.

What more convenient than spiritual standards whereby people believe themselves to be above others over criteria purely established by themselves that are advantageously to themselves beyond validation in the world of the laboratory.

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