stuff evolution i am a human being not an ape!

[Tao_Equus]

Originally Posted by Q2008

1+1 will always = 2, and never three.

For practical purposes this may be the case. But in fact no two ones are ever the same. So 1+1 does not factually make 2, only approximately. There are infinite infinities in the differences between the two ones.

tao

[_Z_]

yup i agree with you tao, further that we cannot qualify a given thing as entire nor as an exact fraction, there are only ‘middles’.

see my latest thread about oranges, in the philosophy section.

[Q2008]

Originally Posted by Tao_Equus

Because you say so?

tao

Good question. What answer was it you wanted me to give?

To transcend the mechanism of evolution we'd have to say there was a limit to what evolution could produce. To be more than what evolution had/could fashion, we'd need to know exactly what evolution has/could have fashioned. We don't know that. At a certain point, an amalgamation of favorable traits produced a breed of primates that were very smart, and capable of complex and abstract thinking. How is it fair to say they transcended the survival/selection mechanism that produced them? They're especially special, and therefore transcendent? I think not, because I don't see why.

[Q2008]

Originally Posted by Tao_Equus

There are infinite infinities in the differences between the two ones.

tao

There is no difference between exactly one, and exactly one. Evolution cannot produce something greater than what can it produce. That is a fallacy in thinking. If Y [can do] X, X cannot be greater than what Y [can do].

[_Z_]

Q20008, hi
.
if we were to say ‘genius is the result of the entire product of man’ [Z] then go further and say that genius and humanity is the end product of evolution, then perhaps we begin to draw a bigger picture of things and the reason ‘WHY’ we have come into being! sure there may be many different types of potential intelligent beings, but in order to utilise that as well as humans they would have to be shaped like us in many ways.
.
how do we know that infinite intelligence [perhaps seen in the mechanistic sense] and potential doesn’t try to achieve humanity [ this is what i call the ‘humanative’], and intelligence, genius etc. maybe the universe isn’t as inane as science infers!
.

There is no difference between exactly one, and exactly one.

.
there is no exactly one! or define an example of such a thing? ~ that exists in reality rather than abstract thought [math]. secondly, another one is always - yes ALWAYS different to a given other.
.

If Y [can do] X, X cannot be greater than what Y [can do].

.
except where Y = infinity, then X can be anything, it can be an infinity or a finite object, perhaps with an infinite base [as with infinite sets]. more to the point there is nothing out there which places restrictions on what can arise ~ and that is the whole reason why existence exists where it is a logical fallacy that there is anything at all, there should be nothing, infinity is incomparative, there shouldnt be anything bar that.

[Resigned]

Originally Posted by _Z_

stuff evolution i am human not an ape! [just balme dawkins for all these threads lols].

I only got as far as the first sentence when I realized you have an appallingly skewed understanding of evolution so I thought some clarification was in order.

Firstly, you make a common mistake for those who have not studied the subject you are arguing against.

Unfortunately, your entire premise is terribly flawed. I see this frequently. My suspicion is that you have been coached by religious entities who certainly have a vested interest in placating your desire to believe the religious tales and fables in lieu of hard facts.

Meaning, of course that the “man into ape” nonsense displays a fundamental lack of understanding. Man was never an ape. Man was never descended from a monkey. Man and primates shared a common ancestor but branched off in separate directions. That’s not at all uncommon in evolutionary history, by the way, for species to diverge in different directions while sharing a common ancestry.

[_Z_]

hi, resigned

My suspicion is that you have been coached by religious entities who certainly have a vested interest in placating your desire to believe the religious tales and fables in lieu of hard facts.

i don’t belong to any religion or cult and was brought up as an athiest.

Meaning, of course that the "man into ape" nonsense displays a fundamental lack of understanding. Man was never an ape. Man was never descended from a monkey. Man and primates shared a common ancestor but branched off in separate directions.

i am aware of that, ‘ape’ was simply referring to the group where used as a common euphemism for that common ancestor, it was just for the title for the op really. the point was that we are more than evolution, simply because once you can change genes you are no longer a product of them, we are or will be our own product.

[TealLeaf]

Originally Posted by _Z_

sure we still evolve but it is by our own means as well as by nature. the more we understand about evolution and genes, the more we can escape their clutches.

Animals also decide how they evolve. That is what sexual selection is all about. If we collectively decide how we are going to evolve we would call that social selection. Anyway you slice it it is still natural selection and evolution still applies.

[Dream]

In response to the earlier hint that bonobos might be breed compatible with sapiens, I looked around just a very little. Somebody got funding to inseminate chimps -- one Illya Ivanovich Ivanov Humanzee - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia I don't know whether the article is a joke or not, but it looks real.