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| Islam Islam and Islamic issues: discussions of the Muslim Faith. |
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01-01-2007, 09:39 PM
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#47 (permalink) | ||||||||||||||
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General Member
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 189
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Re: Sunni vs Shi'a
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Nice start… Quote:
Some Muslims make false accusations against the Shias, and sadly many believe these accusations. Quote:
A popular misconception amongst some Muslims is that the Shias accuse Aisha of adultery. This is a false accusation, and not a single AUTHENTIC Shia book supports such a belief. Quote:
List three examples please from AUTHENTIC Shia books. Quote:
Tell me Friend, do you believe in intercession? Do you believe that it is wrong to ask the LIVING to pray for you? Quote:
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Is it forbidden to visit a grave? Quote:
Asking the LIVING for intercession: Al-Qur’an Al-Karim 002.154 YUSUFALI: And say not of those who are slain in the way of Allah: "They are dead." Nay, they are living, though ye perceive (it) not. Quote:
Show us where the Prophet forbade Mutah! Umar forbade Mutah after the Prophet left the world, of course if this were to be done nowadays some Muslims would call it Bida’ah. Quote:
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I’ve prayed with Shias, and found no evidence of this. So, bring us a proof from AUTHENTIC Shia books. Quote:
Is this from an AUTHENTIC Shia resource? Quote:
Allah knows best if you are sincere, so for my part I shall not doubt that you are… Best wishes to you too. . |
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01-02-2007, 09:44 PM
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#48 (permalink) | |
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In the Name of God
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Jordan
Posts: 570
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Re: Sunni vs Shi'a
Salaam my brother  Quote:
It is not false accusations against the Shias, it is the reality,,,we saw and hear many of their behaviors. about the rest of your replies ,,I hope if you can understand Arabic language and I will give you hundreds of Shea's speeches and lectures to hear and see in your eyes what do they said. Please ...please...please my brother read if you have time this site According their believes in (Tuqyah) and their practice of it ,,, you and majority of people can't recognizing their reality.  You can see in this picture how sheia blessed by Khomany and pray to his place .  Allah and his Prophet Mohammad told us that our bodys are secretariat with us,,,until our death,,, we must keep them away from harmful things,,,so what sheas do in their bodies in the day of Ashora is not in Islam at all  ll ll ll ll  Is this in Islam ?????I pray to guide all to the truth allah bless all |
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01-03-2007, 01:01 AM
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#49 (permalink) |
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Abubakar
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Bristol, UK
Posts: 55
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Re: Sunni vs Shi'a
Asalaam Aleykum Friend,
I am afraid that you have missed the point. Yes there is some extremely odd and possibly deviant behavour practiced by SOME Shias, but do you think that we don't have deviants and others who also practice things that are not from Allah. What is worse, aman who kills a woman in a war or conflict or a man who flails himself? I would like to see you practice the tollerance that you show to fellow Sunnis towards Shias. Peace |
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01-03-2007, 08:39 AM
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#50 (permalink) | ||
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General Member
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 189
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Re: Sunni vs Shi'a
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012.100YUSUFALI: And he raised his parents high on the throne (of dignity), and they fell down in prostration, (all) before him. He said: "O my father! this is the fulfilment of my vision of old! Allah hath made it come true! He was indeed good to me when He took me out of prison and brought you (all here) out of the desert, (even) after Satan had sown enmity between me and my brothers. Verily my Lord understandeth best the mysteries of all that He planneth to do, for verily He is full of knowledge and wisdom. Quote:
Second point, can you prove that this practice is forbidden using only the Qur'an and Hadiths? Third point, unless you can prove the above you are simply appealing to the "emotions" of our readers which can be a tad misleading. Abubakar makes a good point by the way. Salaam, Aburaees . |
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01-03-2007, 09:03 PM
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#51 (permalink) | ||||||
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In the Name of God
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Jordan
Posts: 570
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Re: Sunni vs Shi'a
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Mullah Baqir Majlisi, in his book, Hayatul Quloob - one of the most authoritative books of the Shiah religion - repeatedly described Hadhrat Aisha and Hadhrat Hafsah (Radiallahu Anhuma) as munafiqs (hypocrites). These are quoted part of Shias book  Mullah Baqir Majlisi writes: 'When Imam Mahdi arrives,Aisha will be resurrected so that she may be given a prescribed punishment .' (Haqqul Yaqeen: 347)  The same author writes about Aisha that "She was a traitor." (Tadhkiratul Aimmah: 66) Quote:
You should ask Allah without any intermediary. Quote:
About the quoted Quran here,,,this is another issue mentioned in this verses,,This is about Muslims Whom lose their soul to rise the words of Allah,,(Ashhada)Allah told us to be not sad for their death they are there in his paradise It is forbidden to ask to pray to any thing,,Just Allah who you must pray to him,,,because he is the one who you should worship,,,even our prophet Mohammed you should not ask bless or pray from him,,or wait blessing from his grave. Quote:
This is happened for certain reasons The second time the Prophet (saws) allowed it was at the conquest of Mecca, for three days, and then he made it Haram again till the day of Judgment (Muslim vol. 4 pg. 133). The Shi'ia themselves have a Ahaadeeth narrated by Ali which states that the Prophet made Mut'aa a Haram on the day of Khaiber (Book of Tahdeeb: vol. 7, pg. 251, rewaya 10). The author states that Ali lied for the purposes of safety (taqqiya). In Book of Istebsar: vol. 3, pg. 142, rewaya 5, there is a declaration by Ali that Mut'aa a is Haram. Again they accuse Ali of lying for safety reasons /taqqiya Quote:
The imam mentioned that the most beloved thing on the surface of earth is Taqiyyah./Usole kafi, part 2. kitabul Imaan wal Kufr, Babut Taqiyyah, Line 12, Riwayah 4, page 217, New Iranian Edition He who does not act upon Taqiyyah is void of faith. [Tafseere Safi, part1, Faiz Kashani, page 253, New TehranEdition Mix with them (i.e.non-shia) externally but oppose them/ internally. Al-Kafi vol.9 p.116 about the companions There was a hadith by imam sadiq narrated by his grandfather aba-abdullah al hussain (a.s), who said he curses 4 men and 4 women after every prayer, the are: abu bakr,omar,uthman and muwayia and the women are aisha,hafsa, ummul hakm (muwayia's sister) and hind They say all Sahabah (R.A) companions except 3 left Islaam after demise of Nabi They say Abu Bakr(R.A) Umar(R.A) and Uthmaan (R.A) robbed Ali(R.A) of his position of being Khalif They say Umar(R.A) was a 'Original Kaafir' and 'Zindiq'-renegrade "Abu Huraira (R.A) was one of the fuquaha, but god knows what judement he falsified for Muaw'iyya and others like him, and what damage He inflicted upon Islaam." They say Abu Huraira (R.A) used to fabricate Ahadith. They say Muawiyya (R.A) poisoined Hassan(R.A). They say Muawiya (R.A) was a tyrant opressive ruler. They say Qazi Shurray (R.A) used to issue judicial pronouncement in favour of the ruling party. He was a sinful wretch occupying position of Judge. One should dissociate with the 4 idols: Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthmaan, Muawiyya and 4 women Ayesha, Hafsa, Harid, Umm-al-Hakam. One should curse the above after each prayer. Pharoah and Hamaan refer here to Abu Bakr and Umar. References: )-(1)Anwaar - No'maan Niyyah - P245. Vol 2. Nimatullah Jafaari./ Furu Kafi, Kitaabul Raudah :15 - Mullah Muhammad bin Yaqoob Kulaini Vol 3 P115/ Usul -e-Kafi Vol 2, P 246 Rijaal Kashsi P504 . (2.)Al- Ihtijaaj - Tibrasi 83, 84./Haqqul Yaqeen, P 157 . (3.)Haqqul Yaqeen , 551/Kashful Asraar P119 . (4.)P 143 - Islam government . (5.)Islaamic Goverment (6.) Al-Anwaar un Nomaniyyah - Vol 2. P88-87 Jazaari .(7.)Ibid . (8.)P81, Isl/ gov . (9.)Haqqul Yaqeen- Vol. 2 P519/ Furru Kaafi P342 Vol 3/ Jilaa - ul- Uyoom -P45 - 46/ Hayaatul Quluub (10)Ainul Hayaa P559 . (11.) Haqqul Yaqeen P342. for more information see these refrences Haqqul Yaqeen - P552. (14.) Haqqul Yaqeen - Tafseer Qummi P160. (15.) Tafseer Qummi P29. Haqeeat Fiqh Hanafi P64 /Ghulaam Hussain Naqui.(17.) Ibid P124.(18.) Usul-e- Kafi P229. Vol 2 Tazkiratul Aimma - P103-4.(20.) Haqqul Yaqeen - P509 - 510.(21.) Kitaab be Noujawanaan - P8 By the way ,,,I'm your sister not brother may Allah forgive all |
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01-03-2007, 09:14 PM
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#52 (permalink) | |
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In the Name of God
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Jordan
Posts: 570
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Re: Sunni vs Shi'a
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The problems with Shia is their deviations was in principles and fundamentals issues in Islam.,,I didn't say that all people in both sunnas or shias are good or bad,,,I discuss the principles here . Thanks for reply |
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01-03-2007, 10:28 PM
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#53 (permalink) | ||
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In the Name of God
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Jordan
Posts: 570
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Re: Sunni vs Shi'a
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Ok this is not a mark of respect ,,they try to take blessing and Karma from Imam trace,,,you can read their bodys language well,,,it is very clear in the picture.,,,it will return to your perception to believe that or not Quote:
Ok brothers,,,you can ask any shiat this question(What do Shias do in Ashora day??and Why?) you will get the prove of what you saw in that picture It is the greatest holy celebrating for Shias,,,in NaJaf and Karbla (holy Shias places) you can see them yearly do that and also in Iran . about second point The Qur'an says clearly: "You shall spend in the cause of God; do not throw yourselves with your own hands into destruction. You shall be charitable; God loves the charitable". (Qur'an 2:195)." Holy Prophet said: "Do not harm yourselves or injure others"; "Do not wish death even on the death bed" (Bukhari & Muslim). They beat themselves as a kind of lamenting in their believe Al-Bukhaari (1291) and Muslim (933) narrated that al-Mugheerah (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: I heard the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) say: “Whoever is lamented will be tormented because of that lamentation (or wailing).” Muslim added: “On the Day of Resurrection.” Ok I reply to your comments ,,not to appeal to the "emotions" of our readers Just to clear the truth slamm for all |
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01-04-2007, 10:55 AM
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#54 (permalink) |
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Junior Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Posts: 44
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Re: Sunni vs Shi'a
asslamualikum wa rahmatollah wa barakatuhu
Peace and blessing be upon Muhammad(saw) who was sent as a mercy for mankind. Brothers what we must understand is that there are deviant groups in all sects of every religion. To generalise a whole belief by the actions of just a few people of them is very narrow minded and foolish. From my own reading about the Shia I have come to the conclusion that within shiaism itself there are many shias who have deviated from Islam. No shia can actually deny this. However within the Sunni's there also many sunnis who have deviated from Islam and again no Sunni can deny this. The question is...Would the Sunnis be like to be judged because of the actions of the misguided as unfortunatley the Shia are being now. http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y152/Biryani/azher.jpg This is a fatwa from the Al Azhar university showing that infact the Jaafari sect of Shiaism is a legitimate Islamic way of thought. The great Imam Abu Hanifa actually studied under Imam Jafar may Allah be pleased with them both. The allegations of slandering the companions of the Prophet(saw) by the Shia is something that causes concern. However does saying bad things about these companions take anyone out of Islam. If so then this would take many companions(astughfirallah) out of Islam as we know that unfortunatly the companions fought within themselves. Were the companions capable of making mistakes? The answer is Yes as they were just human beings. Was there somewhat of a power struggle at the time of the Prophets death? Again the answer is Yes. I am what you may call a Salafi but I find it hard to see how the followers of Imam Jaafir can be classed as non-muslims. |
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01-04-2007, 07:33 PM
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#55 (permalink) | |
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General Member
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 189
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Re: Sunni vs Shi'a
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MashaAllah Sister, This appears to be a rather Scholarly reply, and somewhat disqualifies me from addressing it fully. You might find this amusing, especially since I asked you to use authentic Shia sources, but I have never heard of Tafseer Saafi (amongst others)myself. So I will have to wait for one of our Shia brethren to advise us on how authoritative this source is. As we know, there are many groups who call themselves Shia, and maybe they don't all revere the same books. The issue of Mut'a is very confusing. Before your reply, Friend, I had not come across Ali's Hadith... this one came as a surprise to me as it wasn't specifically addressed in the book I've been reading **drumroll** Peshawar Nights. I searched the Hadith Database and found a lot of contradictory Hadiths in Bukhari and Muslim addressing Mut'a. A handful saying it was prohibited by the Prophet, and a handful saying it was practiced during Abu Bakr's and Uthman's Caliphate until Umar forbade it. If anything this discussion has made things more complicated by highlighting the fact that our SAHIH collections aren't as "Sahih" as we thought they were. In fact, we can't rely on Hadith collections at all when they are shown to be internally contradictory. As for the common criticisms of some of the companions, our brother Zaim makes a good point in that the companions criticized eachother. They even fought against eachother, remember 'Ali and 'A'isha leading two armies out to fight eachother (battle of the camel)? And last time I checked, admiring ALL the companions is not an article of faith. I'm surprised though that you consider Muawiya to be unjustly accused since it is well documented that he fought a civil war AGAINST the fourth Sunni Caliph, namely 'Ali (one of the Ahle Bayt). . |
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01-31-2007, 07:58 AM
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#56 (permalink) |
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New Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 26
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three sources of guidance
Hi
I have gone through the posts in this thread and it is a matter of great staisfiction that there is at least a will; and a positive will, to end the differences or at least to understand each other and unite as Muslims, not superficially but really, till we beieve and accept in the advent of PromisedMessiahImamMahdi. That is plausible. To me the differences are due to not understanding the importance of the three sources of Guidance and deciding matters according to their status rightly. I repeat these here: To avoid confusion I would add that there are three sources of guidance provided to Muslims.
Thanks and God bless you. I am an Ahmadi - a peaceful faith in Islam working for unity of revealed religions with peaceful means. |
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01-31-2007, 10:13 AM
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#57 (permalink) | |
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New Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 26
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The pious dead are not physically alive but spiritually alive
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Hi everybody on the thread! Salam Illustration: Now this concept of treating the dead physically alive whereas they are only spiritually alive could be resolved and must be resolved from Quran, the first source of guidance of Islam, which should be given priority over everything else. The Holy Quran: Chapter 16: Al-Nahl [16:21] And those on whom they call besides Allah create not anything, but they are themselves created.  [16:22] They are dead, not living; and they know not when they will be raised.  [16:23] Your God is One God. And as to those who believe not in the Hereafter, their hearts are strangers to truth and they are full of pride.  [16:24] Undoubtedly, Allah knows what they keep secret and what they disclose. Surely, He loves not the proud.  [16:25] And when it is said to them, 'What think ye of that which your Lord has sent down?' They say, 'They are but mere stories of the ancients.'  [16:26] The consequence will be that they shall bear their burdens in full on the Day of Resurrection, and also a portion of the burdens of those whom they lead astray without knowledge. Behold! evil is that which the bear.  [16:27] Those who were before them also devised plans, but Allah came upon their structure from the very foundations, so that the roof fell down upon them from above them, and the punishment came upon them from where they knew not.  [16:28] The on the Day of Resurrection He will humiliate them and will say, 'Where are my partners for whose sake you used to oppose My Prophets?' Those endowed with knowledge will say, 'This day humiliation and affliction will surely befall the disbelievers.'  [16:29] Those on whom the angels cause to die while they are wronging their souls, will offer submission pleading, 'We use not to do any evil.' It will be said to them, 'Nay, surely, Allah knows well what you used to do,  [16:30] 'So enter the gates of Hell, to abide therein. Evil indeed is the abode of the arrogant.'  Unquote Quran needs no interpretation for the wise, if they only ponder. These verses decide for sure that those who have died must not be called in dua, they are not physically alive but spiritually alive. Thanks I am an Ahmadi - a peaceful faith in Islam. |
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01-31-2007, 06:04 PM
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#58 (permalink) |
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New member
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Morocco
Posts: 492
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Re: Sunni vs Shi'a
Salam everybody,
thank you for raising this question, I-Brian. i m a Sunni and i completly respect Shiaa and any one i differ with. This is the pure nature of Islam and Muslims. When the prophet Mohammed (PBUH) came to the humanity, he didnt eliminate any religion such as Judaism and Christianity. He even gave freedom to huuman made religions like hinduism and zaradoism. the problem, now, i think, is not with the SHIAA and the Sunni since they have been living with each other since decades and decades. the Shiaa and the Sunnaa have not been born just right now. i think we have to admit that the dramatic situation of Muslims in Iraq has to do with policy more than with religion.May Allah protect every one from the iside evil and the outside evil and make us brothers and sisters for ever. |
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02-01-2007, 05:59 AM
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#59 (permalink) | |
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New Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 26
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dialogue and discussionis the best way to reslove differences
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I agree with you that Shias and Sunnis have been living for centuries; they understand one another. They had some problems in the history, and history is not absolute truth, every one writes history as one likes. Leaving the historians and diplomats aside; the intention is to purify thoughts and concepts which are only subsidiary and are wrong even in their own basic principles or root sources. That could be done through polite dialogue and discussion; which is the best way doing it for both sides. Thanks I am an Ahmadi - a peaceful faith in Islam , working for uinty of religions with peaceful means. |
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02-03-2007, 05:58 PM
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#60 (permalink) | |
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Executive Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Texas, USA
Posts: 2,567
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Re: Sunni vs Shi'a
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I can think of several examples of how this is like Christianity vs Judiasm or Protestant vs Catholic or Christian mystics vs Fundamental Christians.. A huge part of it is some people dont accept other book as being God-inspired. Interesting thought.. thanks
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