Tao and God - Page 2

robocombot · 03-04-2005, 01:44 PM

To me it would seem that God is more than can be explained in words, but words can encompass all that we 'need' to know of God (inspired scripture). The words in scripture describe Gods 'relationship' with mankind.

But the Tao could be the "impossible-to-get-your-rational-mind-around concept" of God - to me the Tao te Ching does not claim to capture the Tao in words.

Vajradhara · 03-04-2005, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robocombot

To me it would seem that God is more than can be explained in words, but words can encompass all that we 'need' to know of God (inspired scripture). The words in scripture describe Gods 'relationship' with mankind.

But the Tao could be the "impossible-to-get-your-rational-mind-around concept" of God - to me the Tao te Ching does not claim to capture the Tao in words.

Namaste robocombot,

thank you for the post.

you are correct in your view that the Tao that can be Tao'ed is not the Eternal Tao.

however, i would be very hesitant to posit that this is God due to the vastly different ontological views of the Semetic traditions and traditional Chinese views, of course that is just my view.

Master Vigil · 03-05-2005, 02:00 AM

Since both terms need to be defined first, and since Tao cannot be defined, I can see that the comparison cannot be complete. If we think of how the chinese see things, and the way western thought sees things. We can see that they are not the same ideas. But to me, I believe god is just a concept in human minds, and since everything is a part of tao, the human concept of tao is also a part of tao. I see this however, to be a futile comparison.

TaoEmily · 03-10-2005, 11:39 PM

What are the Taoists concept of God?
Reply A.S.A.P

Master Vigil · 03-15-2005, 06:13 AM

That is a difficult question Emily. We first have to look at the concept of Tao. Since taoists don't have a concept like the western idea of god. Tao is the unknowable, inconceivable force that causes everything, and is everything. It is like emptiness, untouchable yet it defines the material. Like a bowl, the bowl is ok, but without the empty part inside of it it isn't useful. A wheel is only useful because of the hole in center. Think of the force from star wars, and your on the right path. I hope that helped a little.

Paladin · 03-15-2005, 03:24 PM

The Master points to the moon, do we stare at his finger?

Vajradhara · 03-15-2005, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paladin

The Master points to the moon, do we stare at his finger?

we do if we want to know what ring he's wearing

welcome to the forum, Paladin, enjoy your stay.

I, Brian · 03-16-2005, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Vigil

Tao is the unknowable, inconceivable force that causes everything, and is everything.

It sounds very much towards what some theists would refer to as God - God the One and Infinite.

Master Vigil · 03-19-2005, 04:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by I, Brian

It sounds very much towards what some theists would refer to as God - God the One and Infinite.

Except some theists give it gender, emotions, has god speak, etc... This is not tao.

Vajradhara · 03-19-2005, 04:50 AM

Namaste all,

indeed, as MV points out, the Tao is qualitively different than how a god is typically described.

i suppose if you were to describe a deity with the same words as the Tao, then you might have something...

the Tao is not "knowable" in the same sense that deity typically is viewed. the Tao is not "personal" though it is closer than your juglar, to borrow a phrase. please pardon my inability to explain what it is... of course.. that's sort of what we're on about

I, Brian · 03-19-2005, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Vigil

Except some theists give it gender, emotions, has god speak, etc... This is not tao.

Indeed, and to some theists this would not be God - merely simplified anthropomorphism of a more complex concept.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vajradhara

indeed, as MV points out, the Tao is qualitively different than how a god is typically described.

i suppose if you were to describe a deity with the same words as the Tao, then you might have something...

Indeed, though I figure there are a lot more subtleties in Tao worth considering anyway...

Paladin · 03-20-2005, 11:06 PM

An integral being may not see the Supreme Ultimate as merely anthropomorphized though I suppose many Deists do. All I can attest to is what insights I have had over the years. There is in my experience a great vast ocean of reality, both intelligent, loving, and everpresent, that expresses itself in myriad forms. With a little age and a little wisdom gained I now understand that I do not fully understand, yet everything is incredibly and awesomely clear. I think now that this is what is expressed in the Tao Te Jing, and the Diagram of the Supreme Ultimate. I often use the word "God" to describe this reality that to me is more intuitively apprehended though at times intellectually expressed.

Peace :0)

Misha_scolar · 04-09-2005, 04:48 PM

I thought Tao meant Way ( as there is no "the " or "a" in chinese, you can interpret it as you like). It does not even state itself as "way of salvation". It is a way of pondering over harmony.
Can you tell me more about Tao harmonising on nature?

Abogado del Diablo · 04-10-2005, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vajradhara

Namaste robocombot,

thank you for the post.

you are correct in your view that the Tao that can be Tao'ed is not the Eternal Tao.

however, i would be very hesitant to posit that this is God due to the vastly different ontological views of the Semetic traditions and traditional Chinese views, of course that is just my view.

There is a way to philosophically connect certain ways of experiencing Christianity with the Tao. But you are right that it involves an understanding of Christianity that completely sheds the more "western" concepts of "God" as a personification of deity or as an independent creative identity.

mysticpastor · 04-16-2005, 05:51 PM

My first post here:

I am usually pretty hesitant to equate concepts from one religion into another. The Hebrew G-d is NOT Allah, nor is the Buddha a Christ.

But, there are some great similarities between Tao and some Christian concepts of God. The mystics spoke of the via positive (what we can say about God) but tended more toward the via negative (what we cannot say about God.) This is very similar to the tao that cannot be tao'ed. We can only know God, says the author of the Cloud of Unknowing, if we UNKNOW god. The more we hold to our concepts about God, the less we know about god. This seems rather consistant with the Tao.

Also Christianity and Taoism both share the concept of wu wei. Strength, in the Christian tradition, (well the biblical tradition at least) is in weakness. Christ shows his power by being silent before Pilate, and by dying.

I read through parts of this book, and found it mostly said what i already thought.
Christ the Eternal Tao (Paperback)
by Hieromonk Damascene, Lou Shibai (Illustrator), You Shan Tang (Illustrator)

Also, in The Abolition of Man C. S. Lewis makes a strong comparison between the Bible and the Tao Te Ching.

I will end with this: Knowledge puffs up, but love builds up. 2Anyone who claims to know something does not yet have the necessary knowledge; 3 but anyone who loves God is known by him. (Paul's First Letter to the Corinthians, chapter Eight, verses 1b-3.)
Thanks for letting me weigh in.