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Old 08-07-2009, 06:30 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Re: The 4 types of Sins

I am so slow to catch on. Ok, 4 types of sin. Would it be possible to split two of these and come up with six? Then they would be the number of man! But there are four. That does not sound right to me. But that is just a petty opinion and really is ephemeral -- could just be intuition.

I'm going to slightly disagree with you Wil about the hereditary sin in the Bible. If you are talking about iniquity, the concept of iniquity is presented in the Torah to keep people aware that a culture must continually innovate to keep from backsliding. Just my opinion, I don't think it was ever about DNA. Cultures/nations/cities tend to degenerate until they self destruct. This is due (I am assuming) to iniquity in the cultures, or a human tendency to backward slide into ignorance and cruelty. Actually I do think I have noticed this tendency, and it does seem like a law of nature. Torah is put forward as a way for Abraham's descendents to continue moving forward, rather than self-destructively backward.

I think this also does not agree with Rev. Moon's interpretation, but no insult is meant. He is dead, and so I cannot discuss it with him.
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Old 08-07-2009, 06:33 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Re: The 4 types of Sins

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You got stats on that? How many billions in real estate that religious institutions hold and how much money goes thru their hands vs the porn industry?
The porn industry is only one facet.
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Old 08-07-2009, 06:48 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Re: The 4 types of Sins

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Sin is an act or thought which violate heavenly law

They are many kinds of sins but we can classify them as

-Original Sin : Only the Messiah (New Adam) can solve it

-Hereditary Sin: We are inheriting the good and bad from our own ancestors.

-Collective Sin: We are co-reponsible within our communities and nations

-Personal Sin: These are our individual violations
Shouldn't this be in the Abrahamic forum? That's where you'll find "sin" isn't it?

s.
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Old 08-07-2009, 07:10 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Re: The 4 types of Sins

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Who says we are ALL EVIL ? I never heard that
We have two natures, our original nature and our fallen nature. (Dr Jackal and mr Hide if you want). I think that it is hard to dispute
my bad used the wrong word...all fallen, all not worthy, all sinners...I'll say it again so I'm clear. I don't believe in original sin.
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Actually it is real. It is not an excuse to justify our weakness or to compare with others. People can trace some of their challenges to past generation. Look at historical resentment going back far back that need to be overcome
historical resentment?? Oh so the black man is put down because of the sins of his seven generations above him?? Yup that has been used time imemorial to enslave...don't mean it is true.
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We have some responsibility as a nation or a member of group for our actions
doh, responsiblity...isn't that what I said? Isn't this one I agreed with??
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Our own spirit keeps record not somebody else.
again we agree....it seems.

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I'm going to slightly disagree with you Wil about the hereditary sin in the Bible. If you are talking about iniquity, the concept of iniquity is presented in the Torah to keep people aware that a culture must continually innovate to keep from backsliding.
I'll buy that, but that is not the sin of my father being wreaked upon me without my being able to do something about it. I do not inherit my future...I make it along the way. Yes I play with the cards that are dealt but I still make choices.
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The porn industry is only one facet.
Only one facet of the porn industry? What Industry (singular) is larger (more money, more assets) than religion (singular)

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Shouldn't this be in the Abrahamic forum? That's where you'll find "sin" isn't it?

s.
ah you is correct my snoop

and I'll correct that dawg.
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Old 08-07-2009, 07:21 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Re: The 4 types of Sins

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I'll correct that dawg.
woof woof.

s.
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Old 08-07-2009, 07:48 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Re: The 4 types of Sins

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my bad used the wrong word...all fallen, all not worthy, all sinners...I'll say it again so I'm clear. I don't believe in original sin.historical resentment??
So you are born without its inclinations and effects ?

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Oh so the black man is put down because of the sins of his seven generations above him??
That is a strange example.
I know that people who died with resentment due to the fault of my ancestors may be quite resentful against me, their descendant.
We see conflicts and wars resurging based on centuries old conflicts that were unresolved in the heart of people.
No one died. We live forever. Our physical body is temporary. No one is going anywhere.

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I'll buy that, but that is not the sin of my father being wreaked upon me without my being able to do something about it. I do not inherit my future...I make it along the way. Yes I play with the cards that are dealt but I still make choices.
When we make good decisions, overcome inherited weakness it benefit our ancestors and help them to advance spiritually. They do not have their physical body anymore. We do and we can do good actions that benefit them.

During the last days their is a great potential for our ancestors to benefit of the merit of the age like the time of Jesus. This is why there is more confusion and strange things going on.

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Only one facet of the porn industry? What Industry (singular) is larger (more money, more assets) than religion (singular)
.
The porn industry is only one small facet. Wil, adding all the facets of evil actions and their consequences that are activated by lust is endless.
Your attack on religion is strange to me because a lot of good has come from truly religious people. It is the 20/80 rule like in everything
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Old 08-07-2009, 08:00 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Re: The 4 types of Sins

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Your attack on religion is strange to me because a lot of good has come from truly religious people. It is the 20/80 rule like in everything
While I didn't attack, I simply asked what industry is larger...now if you deem that an attack...those are your issues.

However...80/20 rule?

please expound...now I know there are many who feel that religions cause most death and destruction and war...so get ready.
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Old 08-07-2009, 08:05 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Re: The 4 types of Sins

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While I didn't attack, I simply asked what industry is larger...now if you deem that an attack...those are your issues.
However...80/20 rule?please expound...now I know there are many who feel that religions cause most death and destruction and war...so get ready.
This thread is about the 4 types of sins. I like to stay on that subject and not disgress.
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Old 08-07-2009, 08:09 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Re: The 4 types of Sins

me thinks you are the only one that agrees with your orignal post. Some say more, some say less, some don't define sin the way you do.
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Old 08-07-2009, 10:07 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Re: The 4 types of Sins

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Originally Posted by Wil
I'll buy that, but that is not the sin of my father being wreaked upon me without my being able to do something about it. I do not inherit my future...I make it along the way. Yes I play with the cards that are dealt but I still make choices.
But? I totally agree with you, I think.

It isn't a sin that oozes onto you from your parents. Its just that you have to play the hand you are dealt, so your culture can only change positively by degrees: If I had been born in the deep south 150 years ago, I might not have been able to accept that we need women to have a voice in government. Because there was a process of innovation and improvement that came before me, I am able to understand. I can be who I am today because of that, so it is my responsiblity to go on from there and improve things when it is in my power. If I don't then I am causing stagnation, because "He who is slack in his work is brother to him that destroys." So if I sit still, then the iniquity of my culture increases until it eventually is less valuable, not a good place.

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me thinks you are the only one that agrees with your orignal post. Some say more, some say less, some don't define sin the way you do.
Yeah, its difficult Soleil to see where you are coming from. I really do think you are referring to iniquity when you mention 'Heredetive' sin, but it seems like the same thing as collective sin. The 'Original sin' is a mysterious topic that I cannot really get a verbal explanation for, mainly because its a Catholic item. Its not compatible with rationalization outside of the Catholic fold, like to get it you'd have to get consubstantiation or so it would seem from recent conversations.
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Old 08-07-2009, 10:22 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Re: The 4 types of Sins

heredity sin would be like how alcohololism runs in the family.. or what some would call generational curses
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Old 08-07-2009, 10:28 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Re: The 4 types of Sins

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However...80/20 rule?
please expound...now I know there are many who feel that religions cause most death and destruction and war...so get ready.
By the way, this is a very good example of past resentment unsolved.

People that have died at the hands of inquisitors under torture or even buried alive went to the spiritual word carrying tremendous resentments.

The recent war in Serbia, Bosnia, Kosovo etc is another example of past resentments. When I went to Israel/Palestine and came back so depressed. It took me 3 days before I stepped out of my home.

A discussion on past war and destruction is not a place I like to be. It attracks a lot of these spirits.
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Old 08-08-2009, 04:22 AM   #28 (permalink)
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Re: The 4 types of Sins

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Originally Posted by soleil10 View Post
Sin is an act or thought which violate heavenly law

They are many kinds of sins but we can classify them as

-Original Sin : Only the Messiah (New Adam) can solve it

-Hereditary Sin: We are inheriting the good and bad from our own ancestors.

-Collective Sin: We are co-reponsible within our communities and nations

-Personal Sin: These are our individual violations
This all hangs on how a person defines what sin is.
One person will say that it is one thing and another will say something different.
I don't believe in "original sin" ( a crock 'o beans designed to prop up certain creeds) so I will only agree with your 4th definition.
Individuals make mistakes and these can be viewed as being sins (mistakes/bad choices).
As for collective sin, this is contingent on circumstantial facts.
Did the individual in question agree with the collective actions or not?
If they did agree and further supported such activities then they are co-responsible.
But if they were conscientious objectors and were opposed to whatever the action may be, then how can they be said to be jointly to blame?
They cannot.
To say that they are, regardless, is unjust.
Hereditary sins, LOL, hereditary defects I will go along with either genetic or in their thinking and belief structures.
But Hereditary sins is a joke.
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Old 08-08-2009, 05:01 AM   #29 (permalink)
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Re: The 4 types of Sins

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Hereditary sins, LOL, hereditary defects I will go along with either genetic or in their thinking and belief structures.
But Hereditary sins is a joke.
EX 20:5 "Don't bow down and worship idols. I am the LORD your God, and I demand all your love. If you reject me, I will punish you for 3 or 4 generations"

Shawn, there are examples in the bible of hereditary sins. It is not a joke. To who a lot is given, a lot is expected.
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Old 08-08-2009, 05:23 AM   #30 (permalink)
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Re: The 4 types of Sins

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EX 20:5 "Don't bow down and worship idols. I am the LORD your God, and I demand all your love. If you reject me, I will punish you for 3 or 4 generations"

Shawn, there are examples in the bible of hereditary sins. It is not a joke. To who a lot is given, a lot is expected.
Well my friend, you are free to read that book and interpret it in a literal fashion.
You can believe that that is the only way to read it and the interpretations you have accepted are the only way to see things if you wish.
You can debate all you want....it is your right and you should exercise that right.
I am exercising my right as well and we just disagree.
That's fine.
I still like you and support your right to voice your opinions.
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